What is the Best Health Care Experience For PA School?

Posted By: Kubin   |   Health Care Experience

What’s the best form of health care experience (HCE) if you want to get into Physician Assistant School?  To answer this question, you need to know a little history…

How The PA Profession Got It’s Start

Here’s a very very brief history of the birth of the PA profession:

  • 1961: Responding to a nationwide shortage of physicians and medical support personnel, Charles Hudson, MD in the Journal of the American Medical Association, calls for a “mid-level” provider from the ranks of former military corpsmen.  Corpsmen are experienced in providing medicine on the battlefield more or less independently of physicians.
  • 1965: Eugene A. Stead Jr., MD announces the nation’s first “physician assistant” educational program is inaugurated at Duke University. The Program accepts four Navy Medical Corpsmen.
  • 1967: The first class of three PAs, Victor H. Germino, Kenneth F. Ferrell, and Richard J. Scheele, graduates from Duke University on October 6th.
  • In subsequent years, fresh from Vietnam, more military corpsmen return to the US and begin training to become PAs.  This new training allows them to continue to make use of their already extensive medical experience at home in the US.

Notice from this that the first PAs were all medics,  trained in part because they had significant medical experience and had practiced more or less independently already.  There was also no existing profession in the US that would allow war-tested paramedics to continue to practice at their level without graduating from college and medical school.

The Modern Health Care Experience Requirement

Times have definitely changed.  These days, college (at least some of it) is a requirement to train to become a PA.  Soon a bachelor’s degree will become a functional minimum.  Ironically, this means that none of the original PA candidates from the 1960’s would be eligible for PA school today.  Along with the increase in education required to enter the profession, the health experience requirement has softened; you don’t need to be a battle-seasoned medic to be a PA.

There are now many more ways to fill the PA school health care experience requirement.  Although some schools have no firm requirement, most schools now require between 200 and 3000 hours of previous health care experience.  So where do you get that, particularly if you are trying to break into a PA career from another field such as business, education, or stay-at-home parenting?

Here’s what you should strive for.  You may not get all of these, but the more you get, the better:

  1. Working directly with patients.  This means being with them in person, talking to them, touching them.
  2. Assessing these patients medically or psychologically.  What are their problems?  What are their needs?
  3. Providing some form of medical or psychological treatment.  Psychotherapy, CPR, a nutrition plan, administering medication, taking vitals, etc.
  4. Use of your own professional judgement.  This means that you make at least some of the decisions  yourself, as opposed to carrying out only decisions made by others.

Again, not every form of health care experience will give you all 4 of these, but this is your shopping list.

Health Care Experiences Rated

Below are some of the most common forms of HCE that we are asked about.  There are certainly many others.  PA schools have their own preferences, so we can’t be exact.  All ratings are given according to jobs, certifications, and licenses in the United States.  All jobs that require certification are entered by completing an accredited course and passing a certification exam.  The value of each job in terms of PA school applications varies somewhat by the setting in which the work is done.  The jobs below are not listed in any particular order.

CNA (Certified Nurse’s Aid)

CNAs provide nursing support to patients in hospitals, skilled nursing facilities, and sometimes clinics.  Their work allows a registered nurse to do more, follow more patients, and do so more efficiently.  Typical duties include: taking vitals, collecting specimens, helping with patient ADLs (Activities of Daily Living) such as bathing, toileting, eating, shopping, etc.  They also assist with therapeutic activities such as bed exercise, whirlpools, and providing patients with self-administered medications.  Their activities are supervised by a Registered Nurse or Licensed Vocational Nurse.

  • Works Directly with patients: Yes. (A)
  • Performs assessment: Yes – some (B-)
  • Provides treatment: yes, some.  (B-)
  • Uses professional medical judgment: yes – some, but mostly carries out the decisions made by higher medical authorities. (C)
  • Overall Grade: B-

Registered Nurse (RN)

RNs care for patients in clinics, hospitals, and Skilled Nursing Facilities.  They have heavy interaction with patients, monitoring their general condition through assessment of vitals, wounds, mental state, etc.  They start IVs, administer medications by pill, injection, and IV as directed by MDs, PAs, and NPs (Nurse Practitioners).  They make frequent use of professional medical judgment, particularly with regard to assessment.

  • Works directly with patients: Yes (A)
  • Performs assessment: Yes – lots  (A)
  • Provides treatment: Yes – lots, as directed by MDs, NPs, and PAs (A-)
  • Uses professional medical judgement: Yes, particularly in assessment (B-)
  • Overall Grade: B+

Medical Technician/Therapist

This group includes Emergency Medical Technicians (Basic and Paramedic), Cardiology Technicians, Radiology Technicians, and Respiratory Therapists.  EMTs, CT, and RTs provide specialized medical services to patients in acute care settings (hospitals, patient homes, Emergency Rooms, and ambulances).  They are trained in an official program at a community college or universities.  Depending on their area of specialty, medical technicians use advanced medical equipment and often work directly under a physician.

EMT-Bs assess, monitor, and provide basic medical interventions such as oxygen, glucose, and basic airways while “in the field.”  They often transport patients who are in stable condition.  EMT-paramedics do the same, plus provide advanced, emergent care.  They are knowledgeable with EKG rhythm strips, cardiac and respiratory drugs, trauma care, etc.

Cardiology Technicians perform and help interpret 12-lead EKGs, and assist in cardiac procedures, such as cardiac catheterization, treadmill stress testing, and Holter Monitoring.

Radiology Technicians perform x-rays and other forms of advanced imaging such as ultrasound, computed tomography (CT), magnetic resonance imaging (MRI).  They also sometimes assist radiologists with interventional radiology procedures, such as vertebroplasty and embolization.  Their knowledge of anatomy is usually extensive.

Respiratory Therapists assess and monitor patient airways, control and monitor ventilator settings, supervise respiratory rehabilitation, and treat patients with chronic lung disease who require oxygen and respiratory medications.  They perform these duties under the supervision of a physician – usually a pulmonologist or intensivist.

  • Works directly with patients: Yes (A)
  • Performs Assessment: Yes (A)
  • Provides Treatment: Yes (A)
  • Uses professional medical judgement: Yes (B+)
  • Overall grade: EMT-B (B), EMT-Paramedic (A), Cardiology Tech (B+), Respiratory Therapist (A-), Radiology Tech (B+ for plain film only, A- for advanced imaging such as ultrasound, MRI, CT, etc.)

Medical Assistant (MA)

Medical Assistant is both an unofficial job title, as well as a formal national certificate.  Becoming certified is not required to obtain job experience as a medical assistant, but it does make the medical training official and therefore may help in getting hired.  The general term of MA (not certified) usually implies that the MA works directly with patients in a medical setting, and are trained on the job.  Responsibilities may include taking vitals, documenting patient information in charts, cleaning and dressing wounds, giving routine immunizations, splinting injuries, performing simple lab tests, calling in prescriptions on behalf of a provider, obtaining EKGs, and helping providers with exams.  This may sound like the ideal job – many responsibilities, no certificate required – but all of an MA’s duties are under the direction of a provider, so there are definite limits.

  • Works directly with patients: Yes (A)
  • Performs assessment: Yes, some (B)
  • Provides treatment: Yes (B-)
  • Uses professional judgment: yes, but limited (C)
  • Overall grade: B- (uncertified), B (certified)

Phlebotomist

Phlebotomists are certified providers of venipuncture, the process of obtaining blood samples.  They typically work in hospitals, since only there are there enough blood draws to support one or more phlebotomists full-time.  Phlebotomy is skill that is perfected only with practice.

  • Works directly with patients: Yes (A)
  • Performs Assessment: limited only (C-)
  • Provides treatment: yes, but very limited (B-)
  • Uses professional medical judgment: limited only (C+)
  • Overall grade: C

Caregiver / Home Health Aid

In the same way that MA can be unofficial or official, so can the job title of Caregiver or Home Health Aid – a course and passage of a certification exam is required for those who work in certified facilities.  The majority of Caregivers and Home Health Aids work in homes with elderly, chronically ill, or disabled persons, where they assist with daily living activities.  These may include bathing, dressing, shopping for, helping to transport, and otherwise assist clients.  Notice here that rather than patients, they work with clients, which is an indication of the limited nature of the medical work they provide.

  • Works directly with patients: although their work is direct, it is with “clients,” not patients (C-).
  • Performs Assessment: limited only (C)
  • Provides Treatment: Yes, but very limited (C)
  • Uses professional judgment: limited only (C)
  • Overall grade: C-

Clinical Lab Technician

Clinical Lab Techs are certified professionals who conduct lab testing with patient specimens.  Duties include running a large array of blood cytology and chemical analysis tests,  viral/bacterial/tissue cultures, microscopy, and tests such as Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR), Western Blot, and many others.

  • Works directly with patients: No, but we give some credit for knowledge of medical procedures (D)
  • Performs assessment: of specimens, but not patients (C)
  • Provides treatment: No (F)
  • Uses professional medical judgment: again, no, but we offer some credit for medical skills like microscopy, which is relevant to PAs. (C)
  • Overall grade: D

Summary

Obviously, there are many other medical jobs that we just don’t have the time and space to cover here (PT assistant, hospice volunteer, chiropractor, massage therapist, etc.) but if you’ve read the above, you should have a good understanding of how to “rate” these jobs.

Of the jobs listed, the most valuable pre-PA health care experience belongs to paramedics.  Medics were the first to become PAs, and it was for good reason.  Their job requires much direct patient contact, assessment, treatment, and medical professional judgment.  Nurses are a close second.  This isn’t to say that you can’t get excellent HCE in another profession, but work as a paramedic to us is probably the most accepted, unassailable kind to have when applying to PA school.

For more information on obtaining Health Care Experience, visit the topic on our forum, or our other articles.

 

222 comments

  1. While I agree that a paramedic probably gives future PA applicants the best experience, I don’t think this is the best route for all to follow. In my state and area (Chicago Illinois), becoming a paramedic is a 2 year ordeal (assuming you have no trouble getting accepted into one of the already over filled paramedic programs). After completing this, you now need to get onto either a fire department or work for a private company (in and of itself can take over a year). While paramedic is a great experience for those that are already ones, I would not recommend that people try to become paramedics before the become PAs–the process is just too long. Future PA students need to consider the length of training (and the ease of getting into a training program): CNA takes 6 weeks: easy to get in, an EMT a semester: fairly easy (usually bound to a traditional academic calendar), a RN 2 years (very difficult in the Chicago region), and I don’t really know enough on the other professions you listed.

    TL;DR: If your goal is PA, don’t become a paramedic–the training takes too long. Future PA applicants need to consider not only the length of training, but also the difficulty to get to your first “patient contact hour” before choosing a ‘patient contact pre-PA career’.

    1. You raise good points – in some regions, it’s very hard to become a paramedic. But in terms of the time it takes, by the time you become a medic, you have been an EMT for some time, and will have much good patient care experience. With good grades, medic is almost a sure ticket into PA school. If you do enough hours as an EMT basic, you will be in good shape as well.

      1. Paul,

        Did you have any paramedics in your class? If so, how well did they transition into PA school and future career? I am a paramedic with over 11 years of experience with a good GPA. Just hope my essays can help me make the cut. I’ve been told that paramedics who apply to PA school are highly looked upon and extremely competitive. What’s your take?

        1. I would generally agree. We had one civilian and two military medics, and all were very experienced. One was our strongest student. The other two were excellent clinically, but struggled academically.

  2. Athletic training has worked well for me. It is a longer process, but also allows for much more in depth training and education. There are 3 ATC’s in my class, and we all seem to be doing well in the program. Our program also emphasizes prior health care experience more than most. I suppose if you just want a fast and easy way to get health care experience, I wouldn’t recommend it. If you are trying to meet the points above: I daily interacted with patients. I daily provided assessment and treatment. I daily had to use medical judgement on how to work with my patients. Just a little insight into the profession.

    1. Redstone, I’m am currently an athletic trainer in Texas and have been taking pre-recs towards applying to a program. How long did it take you to decide you wanted to go to PA school? And did you have to take any pre-recs before getting in, and if so how did you find the time to do so.

      Thanks
      Chris for Texas

      1. Hey Chris,

        I am sorry it took me so long to get back to you! I worked as an ATC for 6 years. I also worked a second job and took prerequisites. It was hard as heck and took eveything I could do to make it. But it also prepared me for the challenges of PA school. Today is our last day of classes for the second semester. I start rotations in June. I suppose I made the decision after working about 5 yrs. I couldn’t support my family even after taking a second job. It took me a year to do prereq’s but I have a master’s and a science background. It has been a very challenging road, but in a couple of years I have drastically changed my family’s outlook and have the opportunity to also make a difference in my patient’s lives. I think that ATC to PA is a great transition.

        1. Im glad you guys brought this up, I had a Pre-PT degree from a ATC- heavy college and had many of the same classes, it has helped IMMENSELY in school and I have basically breezed through the orthopedics sections of the course. ATC, X-ray techs, paramedics, and nurses seem to have the best prep for school. And one I haven’t seen much about on this blog have been the lab techs! Man, the understanding of the bacteria and having experience with lab tests has helped them a ton in the course. If I could draw up the deal background, I’d say work as an EMT for a year, quit then work as an ER tech while finishing an undergrad in AT-C…then minor in psych. thats a dream background.

  3. I like the evaluation, but I agree Paul (above comment), the EMT-P and nursing are careers and not stepping stones to a PA career (unless you decided to pursue another career). It takes a lot of dedication to become either of these. Also, the review does not include surgical technicians. When I was coming through many (STs) were trained OTJ. It requires a certification these days, but I believe there in no better all around patient care experience. But, I am biased.

      1. Not sure which “ST” you’re referring to. It could Surgical Technician. It could also represent RT, Respiratory Therapist.

  4. I think Rob has made some valid points. If you are aiming for experience, the military still offers the best, but it often comes with the obligation to serve in a war. If you are preparing for PA school, CNA, MA and EMT are your best bets. If you are an experienced Paramedic or RN, then the move to PA is great, but don’t become these if you are not going to work in the field for 5 or more years. I was one of those returning medics and it was great experience for being a PA.

    1. Yes, you bring up another important point that I should have made: don’t become a nurse to prepare you for being a PA. They’re different fields, and neither field wants anyone to use them as a stepping stone. Besides, if your plan doesn’t work out, you could get stuck in a field that maybe you weren’t so enamored with in the first place.

  5. I feel you have left out what I think may be one of the absolute best routes for medical experience leading to PA — being a scribe! I can’t imagine a better training setting than seeing the entire process of assessment, planning, diagnosis, treatment while working side by side with a physician in the ED. There is such an immense variety of clinical presentations you get to witness and seeing the tests/imaging/meds ordered lays such a spectacular foundation. You also have a great opportunity to witness interactions between a variety of doctors and patients and are able to pick and choose characteristics you want to include in your approach to patient interaction.

    1. Yes, there are many other ways to get health care experience that we didn’t mention in this article.

      Being a scribe is an excellent experience for learning about medicine. Some schools don’t look at it as direct patient contact, but in my mind they should. The other reason that working as a scribe is helpful is that you have a good chance at developing a relationship with a physician who could write a letter in support of your application.

  6. This site is so helpful! Thank you! :-) I do have a question though, and I was wondering if you could answer it for me. I’m a rising sophomore in college considering becoming a PA, but I have mild cerebral palsy that only affects my legs. I can walk independently, but I tire more quickly than most and my balance isn’t that great. I looked at your list of HCE options and it makes me a bit nervous because most of these seem quite physically demanding. This also makes me wonder if being a PA would be too physically demanding for me as well. Could you offer some insight on this? I excel academically, the sciences interest me, and I would love a career where I can help people, but I’m just wondering if all of this (the HCE and being a PA) is something I’d be physically unable to do. Thanks in advance for any response…I really appreciate it!

    1. If your CP is mild (you can ambulate, carry weights up to 10 lbs), I don’t think there’s much about being a PA that you would have a problem with. Surgery is probably not a good choice for you. But any of the internal medicine specialties (medical cardiology, GI, endo, rheumatology, etc.) would be fine. It’s a job that requires your brain, not your brawn.

      Your point is quite correct though, that the HCE requirement presents some challenges for you. Psychiatry might be one option. Have you spoken with your school counselor and/or disability resource center? They should be able to give you some specific guidance about what you could do in your area.

  7. In your “overall grades” for medical technicians, you didn’t give a letter grade for radiology technicians… How would you rate the quality of those hours?

    1. Thank you for catching that. I have added that to the article – just check out that section again.

  8. I have another quick question: I graduated with a BS in Biology 2 years ago, and I would still need to take various pre-reqs like anatomy, physiology, and microbiology. Since I’m still undecided, and possibly want to work abroad or in research, do I have to worry about my undergraduate chemistry, o-chem, biology, that I took freshman or sophomore year (4+ years ago) and other classes expiring for medical/PA school applications?

    1. The short answer is yes. Many schools will only accept grades from courses you took in the last 5 years. Others won’t fuss over it too much as long as ALL your grades aren’t old. Contact the schools that interest you and they will tell you how to handle this.

  9. I was searching for this everywhere. Thanks for breaking it down. I recently got my phlebotomy certification and have few years of lab experience but not having any luck with phlebotomy jobs. So I started looking into EMT programs to get patient care experience. I have B.S. in Biology and have to retake few chemistry classes to get better grades, any recommendations on how to go about this, I would be really appreciated it. Thanks.

    1. Don’t try to retake everything. Start with the most important prereqs that you did mediocre on. Kill those classes this time around. EMT is great if you can get work doing it. Do well in your EMT class so that you will knock their socks off when you interview for jobs. There are plenty of bad and mediocre EMTs. They are always looking for good ones.

  10. I have been a CNA and plan to update my registration but currently I am a licensed Massage Practitioner with my own private practice. What do you think that my experience of fifteen years will do on my PA application?

    1. They will give you some credit for it, but it’s not generally considered health care (at least to PA schools). But you will need some more “traditional” medical experiences to supplement. See our articles on health care experience for ideas.

  11. How do PA schools look at HCE obtained overseas? For my summer break I’ll be home with my family in India. Therefore, it is logistically more efficient to gain volunteer HC experience at a hospital/clinic in India. What I’m unsure of is how PA schools will view this non-US experience. Do you think it’ll help my PA application if they see that my patient interactions include tropical diseases such as malaria, dengue, cholera, etc. which are not so common in the US? Thanks for your insights!

    1. I think (handled properly) this can only help you. You will see some great areas of need, cultural challenges, and as you mention, some illnesses that can only be found in developing countries.

      In your essay, use this as a selling point, not something to apologize for. Help them see all the amazing things you did and all the people in need whom you have helped. How will you take what you learned in those experiences with you to an American PA school? How will they make you a better PA?

      I would focus less on the illnesses and more on the experience as a whole. Give them some articulate and observant thoughts about the experience. Sharing this is a chance to show them what a dynamic and mature person you are.

  13. Hi Paul,
    What a wonderful resource this site is. Thanks. I have a master of science degree in counseling from San Diego State Univ 1995. GPA 3.76. Well over 10 years direct contact HCE’s in behavioral health but wanting a more science based healthcare career. I am 52, not bilingual. That said, would you recommend I get some general science course work at a local JC out of the way before applying to Davis? Do you have any thoughts about my profile and my chances of getting accepted?

    1. I tend not to weigh in on “what are my chances questions,” since there are just too many factors and the process is very subjective.

      You should check with the programs you intend to apply to. Many will not accept coursework that is 10 years old. If that’s the case, then it will be VERY clear which courses you should take/retake.

      At your age, and with your GPA, I think I would recommend you just take the classes that are required prerequisites (that are untaken and/or older than 10 years).

      1. Judy, there are about 5 members of our 33 member class that are over 50. Definitely have new course work and don’t worry about your age. And UC Davis was tough for my friends and I, we all were offered multiple interviews and accepted (in my case to 1, and my friends were accepted to multiple schools) and none of us were offered an interview at Davis. Im not saying you wouldn’t be, Im just saying spread those apps around, if you focus on one school the odds are much worse that you will get in.

  14. Vanessa Ponce says:

    Hi! Thank God I found this blog! I have been a Medical Transcriptionist (radiology and urology) for more than 4 years and am in love with the idea of becoming a PA. I also have a BS in Biology. Would my experience as a Medical Transcriptionist count as HCE?

    1. In short, no. It won’t be useless, and some schools will give you a pinch of credit because it exposes you to medical language. But the requirement is for time spent with patients doing assessment and/or treatment of some kind. Check out EMT, or for a longer, but more sure path, respiratory therapy.

  15. Hey Paul, great article. I am a paramedic in OK and I currently have 2 years experience. I have an associates degree in EMS and I am looking for a good option for my bachelors. My cumulative gpa is a 3.4, with A’s in Human Anatomy, Human Physiology, Gen Biology, Microbiology, and Chem 1. I still need to take a physics class, gen chem 1&2, and a higher level microbiology class to get into one of the two PA programs in OK. I have already been accepted to a paramedic to RN bridge program which will only be 2 semesters in class for another associates. Then i could complete an online RN to BSN online in about 3 semesters. I could take the science classes I lack in between there somewhere. My reasons for choosing this route are two fold; I can have a fall back career that pays decent and I feel strongly that I could get into a nursing grad school if I do not get into PA school. What are your thoughts on this plan? Also, PA school is very competitive in OK. The average admitted gpa for the 2014 class at OU was 3.72. Should I even bother with applying?

    1. It doesn’t sound like a bad plan. Just be ready to explain in your essay and/or interview why you want to become a PA but chose to do a program to become an RN. Also, be very careful with online classes. Many PA programs won’t accept them. There are no programs that will accept online programs that lack an on-site lab portion for the class.

      Finally, I’ll admit that always love getting the “Should I even bother applying” question, and I get it on a regular basis. Here’s my answer:

        Only if you want to get in.

      Living the best, most satisfying life that one can, requires risk – risk of failure, risk of rejection, and risk of the unfavorable judgment of others. If you apply and don’t get in, don’t be hard on yourself – celebrate! Take yourself out for a treat/beer/trip as a reward for your courage and effort – you didn’t let the fear of coming up short intimidate you into living a small, safe life, and that’s something to be proud of.

      In short, “Embrace Failure.” Our failures our the evidence that we are living big, messy, and potentially very fulfilling lives.

      You DEFINITELY WON’T GET IN IF YOU DON’T APPLY. If you do get in, then…well…do I really need to complete that sentence?

      1. Thanks Paul. And you are so right! “Embrace failure.” I love it.

  16. Hello! Thank God I finally found this website. Ok, I have some questions to ask please. I am currently a pre nursing student and also went to a technical college to get my LPN which I stopped pursuing. I wld love to be a PA but don’t know how to go about it. I am thinking of becoming a EKG tech to meet up the HCE or better still go back and finish my LPN program or face my BSN program and after that I should cross to a PA school here in GA. First do I have to have a four years degree before going to a PA school? What can I study that will help me get in PA school asap? I also heard that if I get an associate degree in behavioral science, I can go to PA school, is this true? Just let me know what I can do because I am so confused. Thank you.

    1. Sounds good – you’ll be working with patients in a medical setting, doing behavioral assessment and providing care. You might want to supplement with some medical (as opposed to psychiatric) experience. But yes – I did a lot of hours that way.

  18. I recently attended a PA information session at a school I’ll be applying to this cycle where the director of the program explained what they’re looking for WRT HCE. Summarizing he stated they want to know that you’ve had your hands on people and felt comfortable in a “clinical” setting touching people and weren’t weirded out by it or felt uncomfortable with the smells, sights, and touch of other people. He stated PA school wasn’t the time to realize you weren’t into that stuff. He also stated skills weren’t the emphasis to them as they’re going to teach you the skills you’re going to need to excel as a PA. He wasn’t discrediting advanced skills such as those of Paramedics and RN’s neccesarily, but wanted potential applicants to understand what was important to their program when they review HCE. I’m an EMT with over 2000hrs at a Level-1 Trauma center and although I feel good about my HCE, I thought this was insightful, made sense to me when I heard it, and wanted to share.

    1. Thanks. Chris. It’s also a good example of why you need to get familiar with the schools to which you apply. They each have their own feel, needs, and preferences. But also realize what they have in you – Your experience goes well beyond a little contact with patients. Had you been someone with just some time touching patients, you probably wouldn’t have been interviewing. They don’t need you to be a medic, but being one makes you even more desirable.

  19. Molly Patel says:

    How do PA schools view research? I’m currently doing research over the summer in a genetic immunology lab and I absolutely hate it. Should I stick it out? Help please!

    1. My experience with meeting PA scouts at my university shows that they crave research on an application- especially if you have conducted any design creation for the methid used, wrote the paper so you understand thesis style firmat, utilized your statistics classes to help analyzing, or if you have had it published. Tjese thingsshowyour ability to write a master’s thesis, and that as a provider you can read a new study and see its flaws before educating your patients. I apologize for typos, cell wont let me go back and edit. Hope this helps

  20. I was a behavior therapist for children with Autism Spectrum Disorder for about a year. Would this be considered patient health care experience?
    I did work directly with the children and with a team to create behavioral treatment plans. I also provided Applied Behavioral Analysis by creating a suitable learning environment for each child. Through my research of different programs, I noticed a lot of schools accept “therapist” as clinical experience, but I’m not sure if this includes behavior therapist because it is not exactly medical experience.

    1. Yes, definitely. They might want to see other types of medical experience as well, but behavior therapy is health care experience. I should add that some schools don’t give quite as much credit for mental (behavioral) health experience, but some definitely do.

      In your application, be sure to describe the things you did that related directly to mental/behavioral health assessment and treatment.

  21. Hi Paul,
    Thanks so much! I am so happy I checked your website today!
    I am a medical interpreter and when I started to work on my prerequisites for PA school my only focus was Duke (medical interpreting is acceptable HCE there). At this point, I am almost done with prerequisites but despite my job (which has taken/shown me all, literally) and my shadowing experience I feel I am coming down short when considering other schools. I have emailed some schools where is not really clear if my HCE is acceptable. Do you have any suggestions for me?

    1. Yes, I’m guessing they are referring to nonpublic schools – boarding schools or schools for trouble with emotional problems. This would almost certainly be mental health work, but honestly, this is the first I’ve heard of it. And primary schools? There may be one or two elementary school PAs, out there, but don’t count on doing that – if it exists, it’s exceedingly rare.

  22. A lot of the health care professions you’ve listed here are great! How do you think PA schools would look at outpatient and/or inpatient pharmacy technicians?

    1. You will get some credit for it as “Other Health Care Experience” on your CASPA application, but these are not “Patient Care Experience” hours (the most most important type of HCE). If this is what you’ve been doing, be sure to get some patient contact time as well.

  23. my daughter wants to apply to PA school and was wondering how closely schools look at the GRE..she took the test and didn’t rate as well as she thinks she should..but in her favor, she has been a medical assistant for a very well known dermatologist for a year and he actually wants her to come work for him when she gets her PA degree. He will be writing a recommendation letter for her. She has also written a medical paper with him and it will be published. But the GRE is hanging over her head and she feels she needs to retake it to get a better average…what do you think?

    1. Some schools look at the GRE more than others. Retaking it depends on her score. Has she checked with the PA programs that interest her to see what scores they want?

      Retaking is a good option – she can choose which score to send, and PA programs won’t see that she has taken if previously. (It’s about money, if you haven’t figured it out!)

      Writing papers and doing research isn’t bad, but it isn’t likely to help her much. It shows them that she is inquisitive and studious, but research is not a key skill for PA students, compared to time with patients.

  24. jameellah says:

    Hello Paul, I really enjoy the site. I have a couple of questions I hope you can answer. I was a CNA in the early 2000s for around 4 years working in hospitals, nursing homes, and private care and currently work as a residential assistant for developmentally disabled individuals. I am interested in the PA profession, but I’ll still need to complete an undergrad program. Will my experience be outdated by the time I apply to a PA school? Thank you in advance for your help and thanks for the informative website.

    1. It won’t be outdated in the sense that it won’t count. Rather you should include it and also try to have some more recent experience to show that you haven’t stopped learning altogether.

  25. Hi Paul, I am so glad that I stumbled upon this fantastic site. I am a 3rd year Bio major set to graduate next year, and I was wondering what you believe the best way to get an MA position would be? Online resources are not always abundant, and as an undergrad student, I haven’t had any professional medical experience. I would like to be able to apply to PA school as soon as possible, and the HCE experience seems to be the only area I still need to complete.
    Also, are there certain HCE positions that you think may suit a recent college graduate more than others?
    Thank you so much!

    1. Have you done any time as a volunteer/employee at your college’s student health center? HIGHLY recommend it if you can. After that, EMT is great while you’re still young and have a strong back. Use personal connections to find doctors who are hiring. Somewhere out there, there is a doctor looking for you – I promise. Physicians are ALWAYS looking for GOOD MAs (example: my employer). They get many many weak applications, and if you look promising and sharp, you have a good chance. Ask your own doctor if he/she knows anyone who is hiring for MA.

  26. Hi Paul,
    I’ve just recently finished classes to become a CNA and have realized it wasn’t my smartest decision in terms of it helping me get into PA school. I am currently volunteering in the ER and can say i am able to work with the patients. My question is which one of these two should I dedicate more time to? In other words, which one looks better to schools?

      1. I haven’t worked out a schedule yet for CNA, I’m still awaiting certification but I’m guaranteed a CNA job at the hospital. In the ER I just stock rooms and change sheets, ask the patients if they would like anything like a pillow or drink, and run small errands for nurses. I guess as a CNA I’m more able to touch the patients, but from your previous comments it seems like I shouldn’t lose my volunteer position. Starting this fall, I’ll have about two years of undergrad left. If EMT is what schools really like to see, I’m willing to try to take the courses as soon as possible. It would be a really tight fit in the fall, but I’m willing to try to squeeze it in now or in summer 2014. So another question is, should I try to do the EMT program as a junior or will these two experiences I have suffice?

  27. Hi Paul,
    I am slightly confused as to where I fit-in between the CASPA work/volunteer experience section and more specifically, the patient care experience vs. other health care experience section. Under Patient Care Experience the examples include direct responsibilty for a patient’s care such as: prescribing medication, directing a course of treatment, performing procedures, etc.. Isn’t that the work of a PA/MD? I am currently a non-certified MA in a dermatology clinic and volunteer as an MA at another clinic. My responsibilties include taking vitals, minor wound-care, taking down medications and calling in prescriptions, to name a few. But I would not consider this “directing a course of treatment”, which is the doctor’s responsibilty. With this type of experience, do you think it’s okay for me to qualify myself in the “Patient Care Experience” category on my application?

    Thanks so much for your insight!

    1. Good question, Jackie! YES, what you are doing is “Patient Care Experience.” I think you are making a little interpretation mistake on the wording of the application. They don’t what to know about you HAVE DIRECTED patient care, they want to know about what kind of experience you have WORKING DIRECTLY with patients. I’m sure in the course of your day you tough patients, interview them (at least about why they’re there and what’s been doing on), and treat patients in some way (dressing and bandaging wounds, giving medication as directed by the physician). You don’t need to have actually done the prescribing to be able to say “Yes, I do direct patient care!”

      Direct Patient Care Experience = care you gave the patient while in their presence (not over the phone, or in their chart while they weren’t there)

      Other Health Care Experience = health care stuff you did without the patient (charting, working in your clinic’s on-site lab, calling patients about their care, arranging referrals to specialists, etc.)

  28. I have to admit, I’m a bit disappointed in this article. What about Respiratory Therapist? I have been an BSRC,RRT/NPS-CCRC for 5 yrs now. Over this period of time I have learned so much that has prepared me above and beyond for PA school. I have intubated, extubated, worked as a fight RT (in both NICU transports and emergency care) I have worked in the ICU, CCU, MICU, NICU, PICU, SICU and burn unit. I have inserted endless PICC lines, art lines and assisted with central lines. I have worked with and coordinated clinical trails. I have helped develope RCP protocols, that are used hospital wide. I am also a certified ECMO specialist (in which you have to be either an RRT, RN, PA, NP or MD)
    I’m not trying to “toot” my own horn, it just saddens me that a department that does so much in the hospital rarely gets the recognition it deserves. So if you want to have extensive patient contact please also keep this profession in mind. It will prepare you in so many ways. It’s a great career and well as a great way to earn pt contact hours.

    1. Hi, Angelica! It looks like you scanned the article and missed it; respiratory therapist is on the list and it’s second only to paramedic with a grade of A- overall!

      See the paragraph “Medical Technician/Therapist” Respiratory Therapist grade is toward the end.

      Just to reiterate: we agree with you that RT is excellent HCE for PA school.

  29. PAUL-
    I am in my 1st year, and have done a lot of research, read your posts, articles, podcast the career, reading books. etc. Also done research in dentistry/Radiology.

    my questions are :

    Im in community college – good ? bad ? how can i make up for it.

    will shadowing at my local- hospital , women’s clinic, urgent care be enough? or going after my a HCE job is better like.. say.. EMT?

    ( since this seems the obvious stepping stone for PA- Not that i’m trying to ” impress’ them but so that it can help me be successful in PA schools once i’m there).

    I plan on going to Afghanistan – there, I can do more hands on. For (Foreign) Students i would be able to do more hands on clinical procedures, as well as patient interaction ( because of a 87% shortage of (any) help! I would gain an immense amount of PI, A lot! , since there’s a huge line of patients in southern Afghanistans’ hospitals).

    ^ How would that look? ( since it doesn’t have AMERICAN rules/ethics just straight up patient interactions and work)

    my weaknesses are ..
    ChemOchemAlgebra ( even though i have not taken it yet..)

    Thank You!

    P.s I listened to your podcasts , all six of them.

    1. Jason –

      For most PA programs, community college classes are sufficient. You might be more competitive with classes from a well-known university, but it’s not a huge factor. I did some of my coursework at a community college and no one ever seemed to have a problem with it.

      Volunteering is good, but paid work is usually given more value in terms of HCE. Of course, if you were being paid to shuffle papers in a convalescent hospital, it might not be as valuable as many hours spent volunteering in the ER or ICU.

      I think Afghanistan (mission work, I assume) would be excellent. American rules/ethics be damned. You want to show that you have seen and been involved in some real medicine, and that should definitely make that impression. Plus, it’s great material for a compelling PA school application essay.

  30. Wow…I am just enthralled at the fact that I found this. Ok, so here it goes.
    I graduated with a BA in Biology at a small Liberal Arts school about 5 years ago. My overall gpa was a 2.59 when I graduated back then. So, I thought about PA school 3 years ago and I went back to school and re took some courses (A&P 1,2; Gem Chem 1,2) and I took Organic Chemistry 1 and 2. I also scattered in a ton of other courses that related to the healthcare/science field and I ended up accumulating another 60 credit hours on top of my BA in Biology. With the past 60 credit hours, I ended up with an overall 3.8 gpa.

    Now about my “clinical experience”. I decided to go the CNA route and get direct patient care. I currently work in 2 hospitals on the medical/surgical floors and the ICU’s. I have accumulated close to 1500 hours.

    Based off of your knowledge with regards to acceptance into PA school, DO YOU THINK I CAN GET IN?

    PS I am planning on applying to nursing school as a “back up” in order to get more credits and more clinic hours. Is that a good idea?

    1. Hi, Alan –

      Thanks for the compliment. I’m not sure what you did. If you graduated with a 60 credit hour degree with a 2.59, it’s mathematically impossible to raise your overall GPA to higher than 3.3. 1500 hours of HCE is good.

      I as I tell everyone – I have no idea if you will get in, but there isn’t anything you’ve mentioned that tells me you definitely can’t. It’s just too subjective a process, too many variables. Just apply and see what THEY think.

      I don’t generally recommend nursing school as a “backup,” because it can invite the question “If he wants to become a PA, why is he going to nursing school?” from PA school admissions committee members.

      I’m sorry if these answers are less helpful than you were expecting – I really want you to get in.

      We do have plenty of articles here about the process, so look around and maybe your next steps will come into sharper focus.

      Paul

  31. Thanks for the reply Paul.
    Sorry for the confusion. Perhaps I should been a little more coherent. I have a gpa of 3.8 at the community college. (Associates in Science). After I combine that with my BA in Biology (2.59) I would end up with an overall average of 2.88 I believe. It’s somewhere around there.

  32. Hi Paul,

    I stumbled on your website while researching on the PA admission process. Thank you so much for all the information!
    I am previously a refinery chemist. I quit my job 2 years ago to stay home with the young children, and I am now taking pre-reqs for PA school. I have zero medical experience and I am having some difficulties looking for a place to volunteer. Most clinics that I inquired in my area don’t accept volunteers. The hospitals offer about 3-4 hours/week which I think will take me a long time to accumulate at least 200-500 hours. I initially wanted to apply next year because I am almost done with my pre-reqs. But after reading your articles, I think that might be too soon for my scenario: no clinical experience!

    Do you have any tips on getting volunteer opportunities? I have considered becoming an EMT or CNA to get the paid work experience as well. Is that a good option?

    Thanks again for your time.

    1. I think EMT is a good route, but not great if you don’t end up getting a job as an EMT. Talk with your own physician about shadowing or does he/she know a practice that might be able to employ you? If you are smart and motivated, most doctors would be willing to give your name to someone else for consideration. Have you looked into working in a medical clinic, as say, a medical assistant? Some clinics will take you on and train you on the job – you just need to make it clear what an asset you will be to them.

      1. Thanks for the insight!
        I haven’t had any luck with local clinics, but I will keep trying.
        Do you know if working as a CNA is helpful on the application, in terms of clinical hours and patient-contact experience?

        1. It is. It’s not the IDEAL experience, but it’s definitely accepted by most schools.

  33. Sorry, I forgot to mention that I have a BS in Chemistry and have worked in the oil&gas industry for 6-7 years in the past. This is like starting over. :)

  34. So, I’m supposed to go to school for another 2-3 years to become a nurse, work in that field for 200-3000 hours depending on the MA program requirements, on top of having invested 4 years in my BA already, then do the MA course prereqs and THEN do another 2-3 year PA program? yeah…

    1. No, Lolo. The article is just describing the BEST types of health care experience, not the ONLY types. Think of it this way – if you were going to become an architect, it would be ideal to show them that you have been a successful general contractor and that you have also worked in urban planning and design. But yo and I know that plenty of architects don’t get started that way.

      What you should take away from the article is what makes an experience in health care a good one for PA school so you can go out and get as close to that as you can.

      Incidentally, I never recommend that pre-PAs become nurses first. It’s too much time and money, and it can raise the question in PA school application committees as to why you went to nursing school if what you really wanted was to become a PA.

      Just find some experience that in some way meets as many of the following ideas as you can:
      -working in person with patients in a medical or mental health setting
      -doing assessment and/or treatment of SOME KIND
      -using your judgment in the process.

      Plenty of PAs got their health care experience while working as medical assistants.
      –

  35. Christian says:

    Hey paul.

    I’m 22 and not so sure what to do now. I just graduated community college and have taken most of not all of the pre reqs for pa school. I was looking into becoming an Athletic trainer as my source of HCE and get my bachelors in applied sciences before PA school. Does that sound good or am I going about that the wrong way?

  36. Christian says:

    Hello paul,

    I am 22 and not sure if what I have planned ia a good way of going about getting into PA school. I learned a lot from reading your articles and think this sounds good but I’m not sure. I recently just graduated from community college and have taken most of if not all the pre reqs for pa school. I have no hce and was thinking of becoming an athletic trainer as my source of hce while getting my bachelors of applied sciences before I apply to PA school. Does my plan sound good or what am I missing? I’m not sure and don’t want to leave something out.

    thanks for your time.

    1. I don’t see any problem with that. Try if you can to get some kind of acute care experience as a supplement (hospital/ER/ambulance).

  37. Paul,

    I am currently going on my 5th year as a licensed/certified athletic trainer. I did not see this on the list of possible things that could count towards the volunteer/HCE (i know you could not list them all). We are allied health care professionals with medical licenses so I assume all my hours would count. I currently spend my summers volunteering with my team physicians (GP/sports med, orthopedics, ENT, physical therapist & chiropractor) I work with & observing surgeries often. I want to get into orthopedics speciality as PA ultimately, but my concern is that all my HCE is in orthopedics/sports medicine. My patients have always been athletes ages 12-22, I have had a TON of experience in evaluation, prevention, assessment & treatment of injuries, rehabbing athletes back from 9-12 month long term injuries or even removing sutures etc. My question is do you think it would help to try to obtain experience in other specialties to add to my HCE? I used to volunteer as an MA with a Doctor helping him with EMG’s which I enjoyed as well, but not sure that adds to much to my experience. The transition from ATC to PA seems reasonable & my only goal right now is to work within orthopedics but also love the idea of emergency medicine, cardiology or pediatrics & want to get as much as experience as I can to help me as I make this transition. Any advice would be much appreciated! Thank you!

    Kristi

    1. Yes, Kristi – athletic trainer is (to most schools) qualifying health care experience. Yes, I always recommend that applicants have more than one type of health care experience. EMT or ER volunteer might serve that purpose.

  38. Paul,

    I am currently a Hospital Corpsman in the Navy and have completed two tours to Afghanistan with the Marines. I just want to start off by saying that Corpsman are not medics, they are Corpsman and it is a insult to be compared to Army and Airforce medics. As a Corpsman I’ve often worked independently from a provider, due to not always having one with us on month long field ops or in country. I have carried many medications, and seen patients independently for a very often, some times operating with a physician on the other side of a radio. At the age of 18 after training and OJT experience i was performing minor procedures with out the direct supervision of the a Physician. I do appreciate the Medical Assistants and Nurses I’ve worked with in less tactical commands, I am not knocking on their jobs, but feel more is asked of a 20 year old corpsman operating during a fire fight performing cricothyroidotomies, applying multiple tourniquets and inserting chest tubes. I am currently working on my Bachelors degree through night school and online college to apply for Physician Assistant programs. As a Corpsman how competitive will I be when competing for a Physician Assistant Program?

    Thank you

    1. I hope I didn’t insult you! It sounds like you’ve had some amazing experience, and in that area, I’m sure your application will be strong. PA school also requires solid academics, so if you’re good in that area, I expect things will go well for you.

  39. Hello I am an EMT-B with just under 2000 hours of HCE. I would like to become a paramedic simply for the growth and the experience, but when it is all said and done I want to be a PA. That being said it seems like paramedic is a waste of money unless I plan on doing it for a few years. I’m 24 and I’d like to be in a PA school in the next 2 years. In your opinion should I just stay an EMT and work on my shadowing, volunteering, and a few pre reqs I missed in my undergrad? Also for perspective does 4000 hours of HCE for an EMT seem competitive?

    P.S. This site is Legend…wait for it…dary. Legendary.

    1. Kind words, Derek! Thanks for that.

      It really depends. If you are a strong applicant, you may not need EMT-P. On the whole, I think it’s good to 1) have a backup plan, and 2) go for overkill – meaning try become an even better candidate if you can. For that reason, I might encourage you to look at medic school. Even if you don’t spend a lot of time as a medic, the experience at assessment will be very helpful. You will also have a great plan in place should you not get in on your first try. Paramedic is a solid career, particularly for someone your age, so it sort of kills two birds with one stone (earns a living and improves your chances of getting into PA school).

  40. Hello! I love this website~
    I am a senior in high school, graduating in May. I want to go to this private college that will let me graduate debt free. The problem is, they dont really have a Pre-PA program. It’s more like Physical Therapy mixed with a bit of PA stuff here and there (nothing against PT, btw). So then they suggested I take their RN course, work as a RN and catch up on any pre-reqs, and then go to PA school with all my required clinical experience.

    OR…
    I could go to a community college, get my general classes out of the way
    Then transfer to a public university, work as a physical therapy aide or OT aide, but get trained on the job, and then at the same time major in Biology or something like that. I would apply to their PA graduate program, as well as other PA schools of course.
    So basically after my big rabble, should I go with Plan A or B? I guess I wouldn’t mind being an RN, but I think an Ultrasound Tech/Radiologist Tech is super awesome ~ but i am afraid that will take too long (go to community college for 4 years, catch up my pre-reqs, then PA school. hmmm)
    I figured that with plan A, i can have a back up plan, plus I will have house payments to pay for… but I wouldn’t be a nurse for very long though so I am just wondering if I could utilize my time differently. I like the idea of plan B, and I can learn how to be a PTA on the job, while in undergrad school. Does this make sense? I just want to make the most practical decision on my path to PA school.
    Also, (sorry this is so long, I know you are busy) my dad says language is not my forte`. I tend to mush words together sometimes, or I mispronounce things. He’s like, “You’ll have to know Latin based words and say complicated stuff.” I took Latin for 5 years, and i read medical books all the time, without blinking an eye at medical jargon. He said I am more of a people person than a technical person (which I believe I am both, if that makes sense. I love people, but I am fascinated by the science of things). I think that is why my parents are pushing for me to be an RN. They just want to make sure I dont get hurt, and end up making a huge mistake like my parents made (my parents regret their art and literature major.) So could a bubbly, people person like me who happens to like science too much be a good PA?
    Thank you for your time!

    1. I think either option could work. As I read them, though, I would lean toward option B. Nursing can be a major detour – one that can invite PA school admissions committees to question the keenness of your desire to become a PA. “If she really wants to be a PA, then why did she go to nursing school?” Add to this the idea that they could have in the back of their mind that since you’re a nurse, you have the opportunity to become a nurse practitioner – and since you have that opportunity, why should they make you a PA when they could admit someone else who ISN’T a nurse and DOESN’T have that opportunity.

      In most medical specialties, medicine is about remembering and applying broad concepts, rather than using lots of scientific details. If you become an intensivist, inpatient specialist (hospitalist), pulmonologist, or something similar, the higher level chemistry and science you learn in medical school may be crucial. For example, as a hospitalist you might need to the Henderson-Hasselbalch Equation to determine a partient’s respiratory status. The concepts are complex, but the math itself isn’t. But most of the time this kind of math doesn’t get used. MDs and PAs mostly have the important concepts learned and memorized (what antibiotic you use for what, what happens when extracellular potassium is too high, the most common diseases that can cause a patient’s joint pain and elevated rheumatoid factor to name a couple examples).

      If you prefer the human side of medicine, you will make a good clinician interpersonally (PA or MD). PA school will be easier for you than medical school. Your eventual scientific skill will depend on to what extent you are able to use that part of what you learn that doesn’t feel like fun for you!

      1. Thank you for your response! If I am unable to become a PT aide or OT aide, should I get my certification as a Radiologist Tech?
        And should I do this and save up money before PA school, or just slew through it 6 years straight?

  41. This website is great! I am currently in my fifth year as an undergrad studying Biology and Sociology with a minor in Leadership Studies. I only recently decided I wanted to pursue PA school, so I haven’t taken anatomy or physiology. I am graduating this May and am completely lost in what my next move should be. My friends all say to apply to a PA program, but having just recently decided, I don’t have the time to properly complete an application and I want to retake the GRE before applying. Furthermore, I have very little hands-on medical experience. I was a part of a non-profit health organization for two years and did a lot of work with people in Nicaragua directly, but I doubt that will be enough to count as medical experience. Any advice on what my next move should be is greatly appreciated! I want to get my hands-on experience doing something meaningful, but I have no idea where to start. Everywhere I turn tells me I need “more experience” to get experience. It’s very frustrating. What’s the best way to get my foot in the door and get some experience under my belt?
    Thank you!

    1. Hi, Ashley – I understand your frustration. It’s really tough to get health care experience without some sort of training or certification. First read our thread on the topic of health care experience.

      The fastest way that is sure (if low paying) is to get your EMT certification and work as an ER tech in an emergency room or in an ambulance. That’s what I did, and I still use the skills I learned there. there are other tech programs, with respiratory being excellent paying and a great learning experience. Of course that’s quite a diversion. But if you take it, you will be well prepared for PA school, you will likely get in with that kind of experience, and you will make great money until you do. Another option is learning basic medicine on the job as a medical assistant. This usually requires working in a doctors office, often starting by answering phones, and eventually moving to the back office and helping with patients. You don’t need a certificate to do that, but you can’t officially call yourself a certified medical assistant without one.

      1. Hi Paul, thanks so much for the advice! Being an ER tech sounds very interesting, or like you said, entering another tech program like respiratory. Since I am close to graduating and will not be going onto more schooling right away, it’s really important that I can find something that will allow me to gain medical experience and still make money somehow. How hard would it be to get into a tech program like that, and how difficult would it be to complete? I feel like I am stuck a little bit because I am so broke from ungrad but a lot of medical experience requires you to start at the lowest pay. Could I go to school for a tech program in order to keep afloat financially and still gain my medical experience?
        Thanks so much!

  42. Hi Paul,

    First off I just wanted to thank you and let you know how informative and helpful your site is and dedicating your time to helping prospective pa students. It has definitely given me some great insight.

    I just wanted to know, how likely is it that a newly trained cna would be able to work as an er tech? I have seen that many places want either a emt cert or cna cert to work as an er tech, but to me those two backgrounds are different from each other.

    Thank you!

    1. No, it’s not likely. In most cases ER techs will have an EMT certification. This is a one semester class at a community college. There are private schools where you can get one in 6 or 8 weeks depending.

  43. Kristin Ramos says:

    Hi Paul!

    I love your website, it is so informative and helpful! I was wondering if you think being a medical scribe would be a good way to get HCE. I already have a years worth of being a CNA and wanted to try something else and further my knowledge. I just recently became a scribe and assumed that would be good HCE. I have not seen much information regarding scribes so I just wanted to get your opinion.

    Also in my area becoming a medic takes two semesters and trying to fit in extra classes to my already compact schedule would be tough but I am thinking about doing it just to “beef” up my application.

    Thanks so much! (:

    1. I think being a scribe is actually pretty good HCE. We had a former ER scribe in my PA school class and she was well prepared for much of what we learned.

      Being a medic would offer you hands-on assessment and treatment of patients that you wouldn’t get (on your own) as a scribe. Either of these would be good HCE (medic is probably better).

      If you can do both, you’re a busy person, but you’ll have great HCE to show for it.

  44. Paul,

    Would you consider surgical tech to be good HCE? Do adcoms consider it direct patient contact?

    Thanks.
    Ben

    1. Surgical Tech is what I would call good health care experience, but not good patient contact experience, which is much more what PA schools are looking for. Be sure to supplement your application with plenty of direct work with patients. I suggest you speak with one or more of the surgeons in your hospital and share your interest. They might let you volunteer with patients in your off time, since you are a “known quantity” to them.

  45. Hello! I’m so eager to apply to/attend PA school but I’m having a hard time trying to get health care experience. So far, all I have is volunteering at an ER and at health fairs. I’ve done a little dental assisting but was told that it may not be good experience for PA school. I’ve applied for countless medical assistant/nurse assistant/ER Tech positions but have not had any luck due to little to no experience in the field. I’m planning to get phlebotomy training/certification but I’m not sure how easy it will be to get a job in my area. What do you suggest? Thanks!

    1. Hi, Deiondria! Yes, finding health care experience can be tough. I suggest you use your personal connections. These days people usually don’t get jobs just on an their application; they get them because their application gets noticed because someone says, “I know her!” and hopefully can say nice things about you. So talk with everyone you know about your career aspirations and ask them to help you out. You should also talk with your own physician. Sometimes they will have an opening or know someone else who will. Phlebotomy can be a good place to start. You should also look into EMT. Keep us updated on your progress!

      Paul

  46. Hello everyone,
    I am currently pursuing a career as a PA. As of now I have about 500 hours of hands on patient care, but of course I am looking for more as it has all been volunteer work. I have my EMT certification and recently was interviewed for a position at a drug detoxification center using my EMT cert. I was wondering if this job would count for patient care? It is not too medical, more psychological and knowledge with pharmaceuticals and drugs. I am just unsure as to whether this would actually count for patient care experience. Any input/advice is appreciated, thank you!

  47. Hello,
    I am currently working towards a career as a PA. I have about 500 hours of hands on patient care experience, but it has all been volunteer work up until this point. I have my EMT cert but have found little luck finding positions in emergency rooms (working on a rig is my last resort). I recently interviewed for a position at a detoxification center. Basically I would be responsible for making rounds on the patients/clients, such as administering detox protocols (clinical assessment tools for etoh and opioid withdrawal), vital signs every round, UA’s, and basically being more of an emotional support for the patients that come in…I guess I am just wondering if this will count for hands on patient care experience?
    Your response is appreciated
    Thank you!

    1. Submitted on 2014/01/08 at 10:32 pm | In reply to Eryn.

      Actually, I think this is a GREAT opportunity. So much so that it’s actually the first new idea I’ve heard for health care experience for PA school in a long time. Drug programs see a fair amount of medicine and psychiatry. They are often understaffed and this could give you the chance to do some important things. What’s more, you will be doing BOTH assessment and treatment, even if in a basic way.

      No, I think you should RUN for this job.
      Unapprove | Reply | Quick Edit | Edit | History | Spam | Trash

      1. Paul,
        thank you for your advice! I got the job!! And I love it! Now that I am working at the facility, I see how it is most definitely hands on experience. And it’s given me a new facet of medicine to understand and learn, and it’s gotten me to consider pursuing this nook of medicine once I (hopefully) become a PA. Applying this summer so wish me luck!
        PS- your website is SUPER helpful. Thank you!

  48. How would a Emergency Room Medical Scribe grade out?
    Works directly with patients: although they don’t directly work with patients, their job is to accurately observe and record most of doctor’s interaction with patients from history to physical to counseling to ordered studies/treatment plan (B-C?)
    Performs Assessment: limited, though only observes and records doctor’s assessment/treatment/specialty consultations/follow-up, there can’t be any important details that are missing (B?)
    Provides Treatment: limited see above
    Uses professional judgment: limited; though their job is just to record everything, recording all relevant details is important for legal reasons among others (B?)
    Overall grade: B?

    1. Ketan – you raise good points. Schools tend to see ER scribe differently. In my experience it’s actually highly underrated as health care experience. True, they are not using a lot of their own medical judgment or interacting *directly* directly with patients. But whatever is lost in this area is made up for by the fact that they are serving as a direct 1 on 1 conduit with the ER physician, so they absorb tons of medical information and need to think a lot like a doctor.

      I would grade it at a B+. In other words, it’s great experience and if you can get it, do.

  49. Paul, I am 20 year veteran of the Navy currently serving as an Independent Duty Corpsman. I have more than 20,000 hours over the last 10 years seeing my own panel of patients , deploying around the world and actually doing the job. My question is there any PA programs out there that are supportive of what IDCs bring to the table and help us to transition to the civilian world. I have a bachelor’s in Health Sciences already but due to the fact I have been an IDC so long some of my prereqs are out dated for some schools. Any help you could provide will be appreciated.

    1. Hi, Chris!

      It’s disappointing to me that the field has changed so much. PAs were originally drawn from the services – those who had a great deal of combat experience – but nowadays those kind of people (less academics) often can’t get in. That you have a bachelors is good. Most of the early PAs did not.

      I would say you just need to retake the prerequisite science courses and apply. There are definitely programs that will want to snatch you up, but you need to have good, current coursework. It would probably only take you a year or two (PT) to put that together. Are you applying to the Army’s PA program? I have a youtube video about my cousin who did that program. I believe it draws from all four services.

      Paul

  50. Cassandra says:

    Hello,

    Thank you for this article.

    I’m in my final year of getting my BA in psychology, and I have recently begun thinking I would like to be a psychiatric PA. I love studying psychology, human behavior, and psychopharmacology, but I don’t think I necessarily want to practice clinical psychology.

    I will be completing the BA, but without most of the pre-reqs that many of the PA schools require. Is there any problem with doing these at a community college not as part of a general degree? It will be a lot cheaper than staying on at my university to take them.

    Also, with a degree in psychology, I’m not exactly sure how to get health care hours. I currently work as a clerical assistant in a medical office, but I know this doesn’t count. Once I get my degree, I would like to start applying for inpatient psych counselor positions, but I have non idea if that would fulfill the requirements either.

    1. Community college coursework is fine.

      I suggest you see if you can train to work with patients at your current work. You already have a connection there – maybe you can turn that into a job. If not, see the thread on our Forum for more ideas.

      Psych may fulfill some of the requirement, but you should nix the idea of doing all your HCE in a psych setting. You will need some sort of “traditional” medical experience as well.

    2. Most PA programs want science prerequisites done in a science dept at a 4 year university. If thr CC credits transfer for say a genre in chemistry or exercise phys you will be fine, but CC don’t offer the upper level courses that you need to qualify.

      1. There may be some schools that prefer university level science coursework as Bruce said. But for the majority of schools, taking the usual science prerequisites (biology chemistry, anatomy, physiology, microbiology, etc.) at a community college is acceptable. I did my the last three courses on that list at a community college and was accepted.

        But Bruce is correct in that if the community college course is not university level (i.e. “Introduction to Chemistry” instead of “General Chemistry,” or “Life Sciences” instead of “General Biology”) or lacks a lab, these will not suffice. But most community colleges offer transferable university level science course because they expect many of their students are taking community college courses with the intention of transferring to a 4-year school after they complete their first two years at their institution.

        In short, if you are at a 4-year school, take your prerequisite courses while you’re there. If you’ve finished your degree or plan to apply with an associates only (not recommended, but possible at some schools), taking them at a community college is okay.

  51. Joby Norton says:

    Dear Paul,

    I have been reading your articles for a month or so now, and I am thoroughly impressed with the amount of information on your site. I have just started considering a PA career as an alternative to my current career in education. I graduated BA in philosophy, so I am currently taking the science and math pre-reqs that I missed. I plan to shadow a PA friend this summer, and I have also applied to a part time volunteer supervisor job at a local hospital. Unfortunately, this job offers no direct patient experience, but given my qualifications, it seems the most likely to get my foot in the door and begin to understand how hospitals operate.

    After reading this article, I am wondering if this would be a waste of time. Since I am qualified for the position, it would better help me support my family as I transition, but I wonder if I should bite the bullet and only pursue roles that offer that patient interaction. I am passionate about this change, but I will be putting a lot on the line and want to manage it wisely. I believe I have skills that translate into patient care and medicine, such as empathy and communication; but right now I lack the experience I need, and it’s difficult to take the plunge. Any guidance (beyond this already helpful article) that you can provide would be appreciated.

    Sincerely,
    Joby Norton

    1. Hey, Joby – you could bandy the volunteer supervisor job into another job that gives you experience with patients. I seems likely BUT you will need to accept that it will take time. Most people want to get into PA school NOW and unfortunately fail to realize that given enough time, almost anybody can get in. Nobody likes the tortoise and hare analogy, but it is so famous because it is so true.

      So in short, either take the volunteer coordinator job with the intention of being the tortoise and getting there eventually, or keep looking for a job that puts you directly with patients.

  52. Hi Paul:

    I am currently finishing up my undergraduate in health science (approximately 1 year left)? I have a few PA programs that I am currently interested in. At this time, I have no real patient care experience. I need some help. I was looking at completing a Patient Care Tech or CNA something that will be quick and get me the needed exposure and experience that I need. However, at this point I am lost. Right now I am applying to hospitals just to get in and see what options I may have. May you please offer me some kind of insight?

    Thanks

    1. Hi, Alexia! Here we run into the classic pre-PA problem. You want to become a PA now, but you need 1K or more hours of health care experience to get in. EMT is probably the fastest way that is likely to get you there. But you should stay tuned to our site – our next article will tackle this situation and may get you thinking about it differently.

  53. Hey Paul,
    So I am fresh out of undergrad with a Bachelors in Applied Health Science. I am planning on applying to PA school after gaining my HCE as an EMT or Scribe (still weighing the options). I have a couple of C’s in my prereq classes, but have an awesome resume of volunteer service (medical and non) and will have 1000-2000 of hours before I apply. Should I retake those classes I got C’s in?

    1. If they are science prerequisites, then yes you should. If not, you should look at how relevant they are. Good HCE is good, but it doesn’t make up for low grades.

  54. Hello Paul,

    I am a current sophomore getting a bachelors of science in psychology. I spent my sophomore year volunteering over 100 hours at a center for children with autism where I worked directly with the students to improve their fine motor skills and behavior. I was planning to volunteer at the hospital and was wondering if these were considered as health care experience.

    1. Volunteering is considered HCE. It won’t give you as much credit as paid health care experience, which is why you should try to get a paid job working with patients if at all possible. But volunteering is a good way to make connections and find paid jobs – use it as a form of networking in addition to HCE.

  55. Hi Paul,
    I’m an aspiring PA student and am planning to specialize in Dermatology. I’m a “non-traditional” student as I’ve been out of the educational world for several years but I did complete my A.A. in Psychology and when I begin my junior year this August I’ll be completing my B.A. in Psychology. This major is somewhat unrelated but I figured I’d do best studying a subject that I enjoy and will do well at and I can complete my pre-req’s for PA school with elective credits.
    For my HCE, I’m a little torn because I can either put my A.A. to good use and work as a Mental Health Technician, or I can do the summer semester EMT program at my local community college.
    EMT seems like the obvious choice but I’d like to save myself $1300 and 4 months of school. I didn’t see this job on your list and I haven’t come across any blogs that would reinforce whether or not Mental Health Tech would be fitting for HCE. What’s your opinion?? I’d love to know. Thanks!

    1. If you really want to be competitive, I would suggest you do both. Mental health tech is HCE because you will work directly with patients. BUT, you should round out your HCE so you aren’t a one trick pony (psychiatry only).

      $1300 is a lot – that’s what it costs for a private class, which would be much faster than 4 months. Usually a community college EMT course is much cheaper, though it will take a full semester that way.

  56. Hi Paul,
    I’m hoping to apply for PA school in a few years, and then aiming to pursue a commission in the Navy in trauma/critical care.

    I’m currently working full time at the VA in clinical psychology research, running diagnostics and psych interviews with combat veterans – I’ve worked in the field for 3+ years, mostly in one-on-one patient interactions.
    Am planning on going through EMT training in fall to bump up my non-psych HCE.

    But my major for my bachelors (redoing, since my UK education did not transfer to the US system) is currently nursing (in pre-req classes now). Is this something I should continue, or while I still have time should I transfer to a bio or similar major? Or even psychology, since I have the work experience background?

    Any advice would be great, thanks so much!

    1. Are you interested nursing? If so, nursing would be a good major. If not, you might consider a switch. Don’t freak out if the answer is “No, I don’t think I want to become a nurse.” If it’s not too late in your program for you to change majors without prolonging your schooling hugely, then fine. If you’re only a semester or two from graduating, I think I would just finish it out. Once the degree is out of the way (you need one) you can fill in the few classes that you need that you didn’t get in your program.

    2. Stephanie says:

      Hi Alice! I was wondering if you know if your research at the VA in clinical psychology counts as HCE? I’m debating on taking or turning down an unpaid research position at a VA hospital doing exactly what you did–running interviews with combat veterans– because I’m not sure if it counts as HCE or not. It also requires a one year commitment and I’m not sure if I should focus on my academics instead (since I would be working during the school year) if it does not count as HCE. If I decide to take the position, I would be doing the research for credit for just the first semester and the second semester is unpaid. Any insight would be much appreciated!

      1. It’s not ideal. But you can make the argument. In my mind it does get you talking with patients and that’s a huge part of HCE. But some schools will want “traditional” medical experience, meaning physical, not psychological. Talk with the schools that interest you.

      2. Hi Rachel,
        Paul already answered but I’ll add my two cents: I’ve found it incredibly rewarding working with trauma psych patients, it can be tough but I love my job. However I’ve been a full time employee for 4 years now so I schedule my own patients from baseline through to diagnostics and treatment assignment, albeit within research, I’m still fortunate enough to be sending patients to EBT programs and have a lot of autonomy in my work – the Cali schools i spoke to liked that. So I would say it perhaps depends somewhat on what exactly you’ll be doing with your patients/research participants .
        I still have a fair amount of science prereqs to complete so I’m planning on rounding out my application with EMT cert this Fall and as much experience as I can get within the EMT community and shadowing some PA’s I made contact with. I think as Paul said it depends on the school and how you present your experience. Feel free to message me and we can exchange emails if you have any questions about the work in particular! :)

  57. Hi Paul,
    I was curious as to why you didn’t mention scribing. I am currently a senior in undergrad and have been scribing part time for 2 years and feel that I have learned so much from this experience. Are PA schools accepting this form of experience?
    Thanks,
    Jessica

    1. Yes. Work as a scribe is (in most cases) good HCE. We could have included it, but there are many scribe jobs, so encouraging everyone to get out there and work as a scribe would probably lead to some serious panic.

  58. Hi Paul,
    I am currently working on my undergraduate degree (BS Biology), but I would like to start getting some paid HCE. I have been looking for programs that can allow me to get certified,and work part-time/per dime while still in school. So far EKG Technician seems to be the most practical program. One of the community college around my area offers a EKG and Phlebotomy Technician combine program. What do you think of this? Does EKG technician falls into the category of cardiology technician? Thanks in advance :)

    1. Yes, it should. This would be a good program – it will give you two different skills that are helpful to have, and at the same time!

  59. Hi Paul,

    The resources you built here for future PAs is tremendous. You rock. Thank you for all you do.

    I have an undergrad with a 3.7 GPA from a decade ago. I just started taking the prereqs to apply next year and got off to a good start.

    I have a few issues/questions I would love your thoughts on.

    1) Two of the three programs I want to get into require math. I got all Bs and As in my other courses but pre-calculus gave me the hardest C+ of my life. I listened to your podcast on how to address one bad grade and will write about personal issues/breakup that made concentrating difficult. I am only interested in three state schools because of their very competitive in-state tuition. If I get all As in all the prereqs, the C+ in precalc brings me my prepreq GPA to only about a 3.5. My course schedule needed to be able to apply in the winter is already tight. I was thinking if I do not get in the first year, I will re-take preclac to raise the grade. I am afraid if I take precalc with three other sciences etc. it would negatively affect all the grades and I am trying to get As. One of the three schools does not require the math though and hopefully I will do well in statistics to show them I can handle the math. How important do you think precalc is vs the core sciences?

    2) Health care experience: I will have maybe one day a week to volunteer to get HCE. By the time I finish studies right before application next year I will proably have enough credits to finish a Certified Medical Assistant program. I can probably get about 200 hours of experience as a volunteer by the application period, the minimum for the schools. But what sets my application apart from the rest is that I invented and patented a medical device that changed my life and provides potential avenues to treat conditions we currently few good treatment options for. I can’t say much publicly with regulations etc. I have worked as a health coach and personal trainer and have seen dramatic anecdotal results in clients who have used it. I am talking with researchers on doing clinical studies on the technology. With regards to paid clinical work in the time I have until application periods, I think it will be hard to find someone to hire me to be a medical assistant one day a week, especially if I do not have the medical assistant cert and they would need to train me which may not make sense if I only work one day a week. I am hoping the device background can help overcome not having paid clinical hours to keep me competitive.

    3) In college I was working almost full time and my work hours would change every semester. As a result I routinely registered for 18 or so credits a semester and dropped a course or two every semester because the work schedule shifted and I would not know what it would be like until the course actually started. As a result I have 12 Ws (none failing) on my transcript. Makes me regret doing it because it looks kind of bad but the rest of my application would hopefully make up for it.

    1. 1) step 0 (meaning even before my step 1: retaking courses you go a C+ or less in) is taking the courses that are required that you have never taken. If there is a course you have not yet taken, take that before repeating any courses. You talk about 3.5 as if it’s not a good GPA, but I’m sure you know that it is. So one C+ isn’t the end of the world.

      2) Sorry, but your medical device, though a nice thing to have on your application, will not make up for a lack of patient care hours. They want to see time with patients more than anything else. Everything else helps, but not as much.

      3) Many Ws is unfortunate. You should plan to discuss this in your essay. At least they aren’t WFs.

  60. This is a valuable article, thanks for writing it! I have a question for you: I have my bachelor’s degree, and back in December I completed a CNA course with the intention of becoming a physician assistant. Because of the CNA credential and my near fluency in Spanish, I was immediately hired as a patient counselor by a private medical clinic within a large metropolitan hospital. In this position I take the patient’s vitals, do a preliminary interview, and begin the chart for the doctor. I brief the doctor on the patient’s medical history and symptoms. After the physician does his exam and diagnosis, I answer any further questions the patient has and put in med orders to a compounding pharmacy. I also act as the liaison between the doctor and patient, and I often relay questions and answers between the doctor and patient as well as going over detailed blood results the doctor has looked over. Also, in this position, I am learning how to draw medicine, administer injections, and draw blood. In this position I work with MDs, DOs, and NDs, and I also coordinate much of the work the medical assistants do in the clinc. I’d say 50% of my work is working directly with patients, and the other 50% is administrative. I was wondering if you would consider this decent health care experience, and how you would rate it on your A, B, C scale?My backup plan for HCE would be a patient care technician in a nursing home or hospital, although after doing over 100 hours of volunteering as a nurse’s aide in a hospital, I hope to not have to go down this route.

    1. I would call it a B, maybe a B+. You would be better off doing what you’re doing than to go work as a CNA in a hospital, paid or volunteer. Sounds like you’re getting good HCE right where you are.

  61. Hi Paul!

    I have a question about some experience I have that might fall under special circumstances. Currently, I am a dental assistant, but I don’t work for a general dentist, I work for a periodontist (a.k.a a gum surgeon). The Dr. I work for does soft tissue work ( Gingival transplants, Tissue regeneration, etc.) and It seems unfair to me to put all Dental experience under an umbrella and say it’s the same when some dentistry is more relatable to surgery than general dentistry. I was wondering since my experience is surgical in nature, if I can somehow leverage this experience in my favor? Also, I have previous experience before I was a dental assistant, but I don’t think my overall grade would be very high based on the scale above (Caregiver 2 years, CNA in LTC 3 months, Dental assisting 6 months(and counting)) . Would it be advised for me to go back and try to get better experience or try to leverage what I have now? I won’t be applying to PA schools for at least another 3 years so I have time to figure out what I can do.

    Thanks!

    1. You will get some credit for oral surgery. Dental experience per so isn’t so helpful. But based on what you have told me, you might already have gotten from oral surgery what you can. Time to diversify. I suggest you try to get some health care experience in a different area. You might be able to use your oral surgery contacts to line that up.

  62. This article was so helpful for getting an idea of what kind of jobs to look for. Thanks! But I have a slight problem: I am going to be a senior in the Fall and I just recently (one month ago) switched from the Pre-Pharm track to the Pre-PA track so I’m only missing a couple of classes like Nutrition, Medical Terminology, Medical Ethics, etc. The extra classes I have to take are not troubling me, but it’s getting a job that doesn’t require “a minimum of 1-2 years experience” or “licensure/certification” that’s really stressing me out. I feel like I don’t have any time left/it’s too late to get any kind of certification or take any semester-long classes. Can you suggest any jobs that I can obtain that do not require such things? Or is there any route I can take that could maybe start me out as some kind of assistant with minimal requirements and eventually get me bumped up to a position that would actually count towards my 1,000 direct patient care hours? Any help would be greatly appreciated from anyone! :D

    1. Have you looked into MA jobs? You don’t need to have a certificate in medical assisting to work as an MA, and it will get you in closer to medicine. Talk with your own doctor and see if he knows anyone who needs an MA who has a strong interest in medicine!

  63. Hi Paul, I’m a college student looking to become a PA
    and my master plan is to become an MA. However, since I am going to school full-time with rigorous courses, I wanted to see if I can get into a private medical office so I can be trained on the job, and hopefully it be part-time since I am in school. Does this sound too unreasonable? My mom is in the medical field so she may have some connections..

    Also, I recently got a job offer to work in a Physical Therapy office. I assume I would be assisting the physical therapists. Would this count as experience? Thank you.

    1. PT aid can count as experience. But my advice is that you take the time you would be working in a medical job and apply it to your studies. Until your college courses are completed and your grades recorded, there is no more crucial thing you can do to get into PA school. Period. Many make the mistake of working while in school because it’s interesting, and they feel like they are working ahead. But in reality, they are dividing their energies at the time that focus on A’s A’s A’s is the most important thing. Get good grades and you will be better off when you graduate than the others with some part time health care experience and mediocre GPAs (and there are lots of those).

  64. Hey Paul, so im going to be a freshman at a 4-year university, my major is biology w/ a concentration in pre-health. It’s intense and i think it’s safe to say i’m pretty damn scared. It may sound crazy that i’ve already started to look at PA schools (but it makes me feel more comfortable to see how many hours i need & what they’re looking for) And its alot…. but I have no idea how i am going to have the time to get any health care experience at all. I want to become an EMT but i have no clue when to do it. (btw i do not want to be a CNA)
    I want to take it easy my first semester to get myself acclimated into college. I don’t want to rush my life at all but obviously my dream is to go to PA school right out of undergrad, but if that fails i plan on dedicating a year to getting more HCE. Do you recommend an EMT? I’m very organized/use my time wisely/non-procrastinator but how do people have the time to get all those hours in during their undergrad w/ intense courses?????????? ……help please!

    1. Madison: yes you’re right it is a lot. Your instinct about taking too much on his well-founded. I don’t how much you’ve read on this site, but I tell people over and over again that the important thing when you’re in school is school. Everything else, including healthcare experience can wait! Make sure you get good grades – there is no better way to improve your chances of getting into PA school than good grades. To that end, if you begin working on healthcare experience in your grades suffer, you will regret it. So let’s just put that part on hold for right now and we will come back to it.

      I actually do recommend EMT. It’s a great way to get healthcare experience, but having the certificate is not the goal. The goal is to work with patients using your certificate. Did you know it’s actually quite uncommon to get into PA school right out of undergrad? In fact the average age for matriculation in PA school is almost 27 years old!

      So coming back to your original question, I wouldn’t worry about healthcare experience right now. It’s much more common to get your degree and then go to work in healthcare field for a few years before applying to PA school.

      BUT I know many people hearing this will blow that off, so the next comment is for them: if you absolutely must start on healthcare experience because you’re intent on getting into PA school right out of undergrad, I recommend either working at your schools student health Center, or possibly getting your EMT during the summer so that as soon as you’re out of school you can get a job working for an ambulance company.

      I hope that helps — good luck.

      1. Thank you for your help Paul!
        A few more questions!
        In a nut shell: hated my university, chose to come home for a few years, get my crap together, finish my associates degree @ comm. college & become a paramedic so that when I transfer to a university (hopefully JMU) I can work part-time in a hospital or ambulance to get my HCE.
        Questions:
        1) I did not take a sequential bio during my first yr in college due to changing my major, but I ended with a C in both bio courses. :( Now, the 1st bio course was for Bio majors at the university I attended. 2nd semester, I took a completely different bio & it was for the sports med major I switched too & got a C. I am taking the sequential class of the 2nd semester bio at the comm. college this semester. Do you recommend me re-taking the first bio class at some point? (even though I seriously don’t have the money, I still prefer to know your opinion)

        2) I have two withdraws from freshman year as well, along with a C from the math I had to take for the Bio major but I’m taking two more upper level maths at the community college. Is that C going to hurt me for PA school even if I ace this Precalc and Stats course? (keep in mind the math I took at the university doesn’t exist elsewhere b/c it was a specific course for the major at the university)

        3) I received an A in general Chem 101, and got a D in 102 (the professor was crazy hard, his class av. grade is a 60%. No joke.), but re-took it & got a B (had a different professor & LOVED him, he was awesome & made chemistry interesting & fun) Is it going to look bad that I received a D the 1st time?

        4) How bad does it look taking some of the pre-reqs for PA school at community college? Such as psychology, a year of A&P, and potentially microbio? (I still plan to take an Adv A&P when I transfer)

        5) Now, I’ve read that the pre-reqs have to been done within a certain amount of years, but I am concerned that I am going to have to re-take alot of them of which I really don’t have the time nor money honestly. Do they really look heavily on how many years it’s been since you’ve taken a chemistry or biology course etc? I am only asking since by the time I apply it would have been maybe 5 or 6 years since I had taken Gen Chem & Bio….

        6) Reality: I messed up freshman year, had to live with The Worlds WORST Roommate, also did not realize I actually have A.D.H.D which would explain my struggle to focus. (grades would’ve been much better if I knew) BUT what I’m trying to get at is even if I do outstanding w/ all my classes at community college, spend two extra years becoming a paramedic, transferring, finishing up w/ good grades, extra-curric. activities…..(and I know its common to get rejected the 1st time)… Do you think my freshman year will just blow every chance for me of getting into PA school?

  65. Hey Paul,
    I am very frustrated because I have a BS in chem with 2.5ish GPA and I do not have any health care experience other than some volunteer hours which I started recently. In that all I do is ask patients their names for registration and guide them to the desk. Not much to do. I do not know if this is any good. Also I recently enrolled myself for RPN (Practical nursing) and got in as well. However this won’t be considered for PA school right? I mean grades from collage? I do not have passion for becoming a nurse but since I am left with no option I chose this. I love studying human anatomy and I enjoy it too but I am not sure about going trough RPN then bridging to RN and then PA which means I will be 32 plus. I am 24 right now and not sure what to do. Its my dream to go for PA school. Please suggest me what should I do. Also I am planning next year to apply for Ultrasound program which is 3 years. Can that help to get into PA in the future? Please let me know. I have no one guiding me through this so please send me your insights. Thanks a lot

    1. Nancy – don’t go to nursing school unless you want to be a nurse! There’s nothing wrong with the field, but I think this type of indirect, “end run” tactic is not a great idea. You could spend a long time working toward something that isn’t even your goal! Better instead to make incremental progress in a straight line toward what it is that really DO want.

      So, your current job is ok. True, your patient interaction isn’t enough. See if you can parlez this job into one where you are working more directly with patients and providers. Medical assistant would be a logical choice.

      Ultrasound tech is a great way to learn a lot about anatomy (and pathophysiology). It’s more difficult than plain film x-ray and pays better because it requires more skill. You are working in real time with the patient, asking them to move this way or that to get the image you need, and your images are 3 dimensional. You will learn a lot of anatomy. But don’t do it if the idea of working as an ultrasound tech doesn’t interest you much, for the reasons I mentioned above.

  66. I am a senior working on finishing up my B.S. in Nutrition & Dietetics. I am planning on entering a 10 months Surgical Technology program for the CST certification. After that, while working as a surgical technologist, I am planning on returning to school and completing certain PA school prerequisites.

    Is surgical technology a realistically viable route of experience for gaining admittance into PA school?

    Also, does it matter if I do the prerequisites at a university versus state college?

    Thank you in advance!

    1. OR Tech is a bit of a sticky wicket. You get interesting, educational experience with surgery (and to a lesser degree, medicine), but your contact with patients is more limited. I’m sure most schools would give you some patient care experience credit for the time you actually spend with patients, but for OR Techs, this might only be 5% of your time. This means that after doing 2000 hours as an OR Tech, even though you have done LOTS, you may only get credit for 100 patient care hours. That’s not really worth the certificate, at least if you’re earning the certificate to allow you to accumulate patient care experience for PA school. The other tech programs might be a better idea. Our favorite non-EMS tech job is respiratory tech, which has you with many patients, doing very important and medically complex tasks. Radiology and EKG Tech certificates also can give you some great experience.

  67. Hi Paul,

    I have read through the above discussions and have found many of them to be very helpful!
    I went into college set on being a Physical Therapist but completed a few internships and decided that was not the field for me after all. I graduated with a BS in Exercise Science and a 3.2 GPA. I took a year off after I graduated in order to decide if I was going to continue to pursue Physical Therapy and decided not to but I am really interested in being an Orthopedic PA. Like most of the people that find this webpage, I am trying to figure out what I could do in order to gain the required HCE. During my undergrad, I was a member of an extremely competitive Division-I athletic program and had little time for much else so I am finding the positions that would be ideal in order to gain my HCE difficult to land because of lack of experience or qualification. I am currently taking a pre-requisite class in order to apply to a two-year radiology tech program. My plan is to then work as a radiology tech to gain the experience required for admission. Since my ultimate goal is Orthopedic PA, I thought that radiology tech would be a good background to have.
    Does this seem like a sound plan? I am feeling a little lost because I was set on PT for so long and then decided not to pursue it. When I shadowed an Ortho PA I felt as though I had finally found the perfect fit for me. What I (and most other people) am finding difficult is actually getting there!
    Thanks in advance!

    1. Yes, it can be hard to find appropriate healthcare experience. Radiology technician is a great way to get healthcare experience; you will be working with patients you will be learning about anatomy, and you will be helping physicians. I would consider this among the best forms of HCE.

  68. Phyllis Wallace says:

    I plan to complete a phlebotomy certificate program to gain health care and direct patient experience. Is this certificate also a good way to gain this type of experience in preparation for applying to PA programs?
    Thank you.

    1. There are better forms of HCV, but in general phlebotomy is a fine way to go. Some schools actually have a high preference for phlebotomy. Every school has its own belief send opinions about what kind of healthcare experience is the best porn is inadequate. Unfortunately, the schools don’t all agree, which can leave applicants in the lurch.

  69. HealthLady says:

    Okay, what are the “better forms of HCV” in your estimation?

    1. I believe the strongest are Paramedic & Respiratory Tech. These jobs have you doing lots of in-person assessment and treatment with patients, on life-or-death matters.
      Next come the less advanced, but still good forms of HCE: EMT, Xray Tech, and Medical Assistant.
      Close behind (in my mind) are: CNA, Phlebotomist, Athletic Trainer, and Psychiatric Technician
      I have heard of others which sound good, but are hard to find, such as Transplant Technician, Clinical Research Assistant (as long as you work directly with your study participants), and Medical Scribe.

      Notice that nursing is not on my list. This is because — though it offers good health care experience — I don’t think it’s wise to pursue nursing unless your goal is to become a nurse.

  70. HealthLady says:

    Okay, this is a great list to keep taped to the frig. I agree, there is some variance depending on the PA program. Very helpful advise in terms of developing a game plan for increasing HCE. I will be proactive too and ask for opportunities for more HCE and direct patient care when I get the med assist or phleb position. I may have an chance to shadow a PA on a medical mission trip and also add HCE hours.

    I read somewhere on your blog that it helps to be creative when looking for HCE opportunities, and perhaps a bit assertive as well.
    Much thanks!

  71. Hi Paul

    So happy I found this blog! I am interested in becoming a PA but I have no idea where to start so I’m hoping you can help answer a few questions I have. I have an associates degree in liberal arts (coming out of high school I wasn’t sure what career path to take) and want to go on to pursue a bachelors in ultrasound tech but I am not sure if that would be beneficial to me in the long run. Does having a bachelors in ultrasound tech beneficial to me if I want to get in the PA program? Upon completing my bachelors I would try to get a job in a hospital to gain experience then apply for the PA program. Do you think it’s better if I got a bachelors in a different field? I just don’t want to waste time getting it if it’s not going to count in the long run.

    1. Ultrasound tech is actually great HCE. Ultrasound is one of the harder fields within radiology because you have to manipulate the patient and be very good at the anatomy to get the right picture. It should suit you well for PA school preparation. I don’t know how much a bachelor’s degree in it will help, but it won’t harm you. What should really help is having a certificate and the experience with ultrasonography and patients.

  72. I’m an RN with almost 3 yrs of experience, 2 yrs in ER and almost 1 yr in Neuro ICU. In both units I have used all kind of drips, central lines, a-lines, taken care of vented patients, worked on countless codes, applied my critical thinking/clinical skills in life saving situations as well as the general care of the sickest patients, etc. I have a 3.2 GPA and certainly enjoy the ER by far more than NCC. I am finishing my BSN but and in that process have realized how much I miss the ER and the diversity of people you see and touch everyday. I always had an appreciation in working with the PA’s, the fact that they think like doctors but still have a slight softer side and have a great deal of independence. I love helping people and being a nurse allows me to do that and I’m very proud of that, but I don’t think the way the nursing model wants me to. I feel that being a PA allows for greater independence and creative thinking than even an NP, not to mention the ability to practice almost on your own to a certain extent. Is this a sound foundation to get into a PA program? Is it wiser to make a change to an undergraduate degree in biology? Thanks for your input in advance!

    1. I assume you area an RN working on your BSN, is that correct? If so, I think you are probably okay. But Biology would be ideal. If it isn’t too late to change, then do it, if it interests you. If not, stick with nursing — you will learn plenty.

  73. Caitlynne says:

    I am wanting to become a Physician’s Assistant. I am a freshman is college and I was wondering if it would be worth my time to become a CNA and work that until I can become a PA? What would you recommend?

    1. First, learn the title, so you don’t sound ignorant about the profession: it’s Physician Assistant (no ‘s!)

      CNA is one way to gain experience. It’s not generally as good experience for PA school as EMT, nurse, paramedical or xray tech. But not everyone can do one of those. We have several articles on health care experience — scroll down the right side of the main page to the sidebar that says “Topics” and click on Health Care Experience.

  74. I’m a student in college and would like to go to pa right after graduation. What is a good looking job that doesnt require years to get a certification?

    1. EMT and CNA are the quickest GOOD jobs. The certification for each lasts about a semester, or faster if you go to a private school ($$).

      BUT: you should know that few people get into PA school right out of undergrad. The average age of entrance for PA school is almost 28, and it’s for a reason: it takes a few years to accumulate enough job experience to be ready for PA school.

      What you’re wanting can be done, but it’s not the rule.

  75. Hi! I am a freshman in college and am greatly considering becoming a PA. This article was extremely helpful to me, however I had some questions. I was planning on becoming an RN to gain experience before I enter PA school. I read here that you do not necessarily recommend that path but would you rule it out completely? I figured by doing this I would be able to come out of college and find a job easily to gain my experience but I have never really considered an occupation as a nurse until this idea occurred to me. Originally, I was going to major in biology-health science but was not sure what sorts of jobs or work experience I would be able to obtain once I graduate. Any advice would be significantly appreciated! Thank you so much!

    1. Hi, Leslyne –

      I’m not saying that it can’t be done — only that we don’t recommend it. Nursing is a tough field too, and if you go to nursing school and have trouble, you can probably kiss PA school goodbye. Also, nursing school can invite PA school admissions committees to question your dedication to the field. “If she wants to be a PA so badly, then why did she go to nursing school?”

      Some have made this work, but I wouldn’t want to chance it.

  76. Paul,
    Just came across this website for the first time tonight. Thanks for offering input. I have been a paramedic for 20 years. My body just isn’t holding up to the wear-and-tear like it used to so I’ve decided PA school is my next logical step. So many people tell me that paramedics are a “shoe-in” for PA school, however I know 2 paramedics that did not get in because of their GPA (at least that is what they say). When I finish my BS in Emergency Medical Services I am looking at a GPA between 3.4-3.6. Is that good enough to get in? Is it THAT hard to get accepted?

    1. I wouldn’t say they are a shoe-in, but they are definitely well prepared. 3.4-3.6 sounds doable for PA school as far as I’m concerned. Who knows why they didn’t get in – I wouldn’t assume that they were right about it.

  77. Good Morning! I have been a registered xray technologist working in the field for 5 years. I have an associates degree but am currently enrolled in at the local university working towards a bachelors in advanced imaging (MRI). I also work as a medical assistant directly under an orthopedic surgeon. After reading your article I feel that my chances of being a candidate for PA school are good. Your thoughts?

    1. PA school admissions are very subjective, so I don’t know your chances. I don’t see anything that makes me think you can’t get into a program. Get good grades and you will maximize your chances.

  78. In article it says nursing second best experience for PA school, but isn’t Respiratory Therapy that follows paramedics?? Paramedics got A, RTs-A-, RNs- B+.

    1. The point could be debated, but I think RT is better preparation than RN in most cases. Not all for sure. But if I were going to start over from scratch, I would go paramedic. If I couldn’t go paramedic, I’d go RT. These are not universally accepted ideas. But you didn’t ask the universe; you asked me. :)

      1. I’ve been an RN now for pushing 5 years, and as I’m looking at the future I am not interested in NP programs. I’m impressed by the PAs I work with, and I think compared to MD/DO programs its a great situation if you are interested in medicine.

        I don’t dispute the expediency of being an paramedic, or the value of any other type of HCE. However, I find it interesting RN gets a somewhat low rating compared to these other jobs.

        So these are the grades:
        EMT-Paramedic (A),
        Cardiology Tech (B+),
        Respiratory Therapist (A-)
        Radiology Tech (B+ for plain film only, A- for advanced imaging such as ultrasound, MRI, CT, etc.), and there was also a
        comment by “Ketan” in which the response stated an ER scribe gets a B+ rating
        And, of course the RN gets a B+.

        Although I don’t do the same job as these other roles, I really don’t see how an RN is lacking anything a paramedic does. Perhaps this implies paramedics need quick thinking understanding of physiology to keep people alive when they respond to situations, or decide how to react with crashing patients when riding in the ambulance or resuscitating a patient. Okay the RN doesn’t ride in an ambulance, and the particulars of equipment use or specific settings differ, but I can’t see how a paramedic has any superior clinical response capacity to a nurse. Perhaps if we are thinking of nursing home RNs, this might be different? But, I’ve worked in critical care most of my time, and just looking back on my time I recognize how much I better understand the body with all the crazy stuff that’s gone down when I’m at work. Again this isn’t to diminish the value of another job, but I find it a bit odd RNs get this B+ score below quite a few other jobs.

        Granted, nursing gets on my nerves, too. It is frustrating to have to know how things work and be the “first responder” to anything going down but have no authority over the broader course of things. I’m also disillusioned by “nursing theory” and I have no desire to separate myself from everybody else so much. I’m impressed by the PAs, and although being an MD seems prestigious and all, if you are interested in hardcore science and practicing medicine and having that authority and capacity to decide how the bigger picture goes, PA is the way.

        If these score were based upon their expediency for an 18 year old looking at PA school as their clear and final destination, I guess I can see the point of something like paramedic. In that case, I definitely would deter anyone from becoming an RN. But if you were already an RN, I fail to see how it merits a lesser grade than paramedics, RTs, and cardiology & radiology techs?!?!?! (these last two blow my mind to tell you the truth)

        1. It’s all my opinion, but it’s based on my observations of people in the field. The best PAs I know are all former medics. RNs are great too. I think paramedic is better PRE PA training because you’re making clinical decisions and managing care both, and without much input from others. No waiting for orders; you have to decide what you think is going on, and act on it. Also, as a paramedic, you work with emergencies more often than most nurses. As a nurse, much of what you do is in the form of orders from MDs, PAs, and NPs. B+ is still excellent, and much better than the types of experiences that many people bring to their application.

  79. Paul,

    First of all, Thanks for the resource!

    I’m a ‘blank slate’, if you will…zero college experience and starting from scratch.

    I’m currently active duty US Coast Guard, albeit not a corpsman. I do, however, have a decent amount of first responder experience with medical emergencies we’ve responded to on the water, and obviously know how to handle patient trauma and drama. Is this something I should list as HCE in a few years when I do apply?

    Secondly, I have a strong desire to steer towards ortho. With that said, would you suggest starting with rad tech/xray tech, or do you still feel that paramedic or RT is the most helpful gateway job? I am leaning toward an EMT-B certificate because it is quick and will get my feet wet. While working as an EMT, I plan to finish my prerequisites…and could bridge to Paramedic. However, if xray tech would be just as beneficial, I’d definitely consider it.

    Lastly, my Wife is currently a PA, going on her 5th year. I have been with her since highschool. To say the least, I know the struggles and rigors of the education side, as well as what to expect from the career. She was a CNA, then a nurse for 6yrs, prior to applying. I guess my question is, when it cones to interviewing, should I mention that I’m a PA spouse? I think it’s definitely a strength. However, I fear that panels may think I’m trying to ride her coat tails. In reality, I wanted to serve, and didn’t want to pay for school! Gotta love the GI Bill and Texas’ Hazelwood Act.

    Thanks in advance for any input.

    1. Shawn – first, you should definitely mention any kind of care experience you’ve had with patients. They may not count it the same is if you were a corpsman, but you worked in any medical capacity with patients, that’s patient care experience. If it was medical, but not with patients, it goes under “Other Health Care Experience” on your application.

      Medic and Xray tech are both excellent pre-PA experiences. I think Xray tech would prepare you best for ortho, but I still say go medic. It’s more likely to get you in to PA school, and you have to get in before you can go ortho.

      I would definitely mention it. You aren’t riding her coattails, because she doesn’t have any sway on getting you in. If she worked at the hospital where a PA school was located, or taught there, or something, it might be different. That you are married to a PA is a good thing to share to make it clear that you know exactly what you’re getting into, and that you are sure that it’s for you.

  80. I am planning to work a couple years to gain my health care experience and I just got a job as a patient care assistant. They are training me for the position, but I was wondering if in terms of getting into a PA school, it would be beneficial to have some sort of certification? It’s a part time job, so I was contemplating getting a CNA certification or Medical Assistant certification at the same time and possibly move to a job where I am qualified to do more. Would this be worth it(or even possible)? Or should I just be happy with my current job and work on accruing hours?

    1. Patient care assistant will give you some good hours. You don’t strictly NEED a certification; it’s about your work with patients, which you are already getting. But in time, you may want more responsibility, and at that point it might make sense to become an EMT or CNA, which will allow you to do other things. But don’t underestimate the value of medical assistant work! Many PA students work as MAs only before going to PA school. An observant MA can learn tons from their work.

  81. Would endoscopy tech be good experience? A lot of procedures bronch, ebus, colon, egd, dil, ercp, taking call. The only difference is there is no certification or schooling for it, would a pa school still value this experience as much?

    1. Yes, excellent – technology and patients, and you’re working closely with a doc. Do it!

  82. I’m currently a sophomore and I was wondering if being a physical therapist aide would be considered direct patient contact? This would be for NY schools such as NYIT, Hofstra, and Pace.

    1. Yes, that would count. Some schools will give that more weight/credit than others. Check with the schools that you plan to apply to for their particular stance on it.

  83. Hi Paul,

    Thank you so much for your help.

    I would like to go back to school to become a PA. I have a BA in journalism and political science and worked for 5 years in broadcast journalism and 2 in non-profit. Needles to say, I need to complete a lot of pre-reqs.

    My husband serves in the military, and we will be moving in approximately 8 months — at which point we will be more permanently stationed. Should I wait to begin pre-reqs until I know what PA schools are in the area to ensure which pre-reqs are needed, or should I go ahead and start now? If I started now, I will still have more I need to complete in our next location. Will the PA school accept credits from multiple locations?

    Thank you so much,
    Laura

    1. They will accept from multiple locations/colleges. I suggest you get started now, since you have much to do. Pick a class that you know you will need just about anywhere you go. This would include Bio, Chemistry, etc. Just make sure that you take them with lab, and not online.

  84. Hi Paul,

    First off, I’ve been coming to your site for advice about applying to PA school for a few years now and am never disappointed. Thanks so much for the time and effort you put in here!

    My question regarding health care experience is whether or not you feel my experience is competitive. For over three years, I have worked full-time with adults with disabilities (developmental and traumatic brain injury). While I work at the day program they attend versus at one of the group homes, I assist with some ADLs including toileting, changing, and feeding. I also assist with ambulation for several of our blind individuals. In addition, I administer medication and g-tube feedings, both of which I have undergone training for to be able to complete these nursing-delegated tasks.

    While I realize this work is not as hands-on as an EMT or someone working in a hospital, I’m hoping that it will stand out on it’s own as more of a unique experience. Any thoughts/advice?

    Thanks so much!

    Shannon

    1. Thanks for the compliment, Shannon!

      Per CASPA, Patient Care Hours are:

      “Experiences in which you are directly responsible for a patient’s care; for example: prescribing medication, performing procedures, directing a course of treatment, working on patients as an active nurse or EMT, etc.”

      I think what you’re doing fits that. It isn’t particularly acute (like, say, ER would be), but it’s good experience. I might encourage you to broaden with a little of something more acute. Could you volunteer in an ER once a week, for example?

      1. Thank you Paul!

        I wish I had looked in to volunteering earlier on, as the local hospitals near me have specific cycles for volunteers to begin. I had just missed the cycle for winter and would have had to wait until summer to begin. I wanted to apply to schools well before then.

        I am thrilled to say though that I was invited to an interview at a program in a few weeks! Wish me luck! :D

  85. Paul,
    Thank you for providing this website. I am in a bit of a unique circumstance. I already earned a bachelors and a masters (Bachelor= Exercise Science; Masters= Exercise and Sports Medicine: Exercise Physiology). I am passionate about preventive health and am strongly considering PA school. How well do you think my education would likely have prepared me for PA school? I do know that I will need to complete one or two specific pre-reqs depending on the school I apply to, but I am not concerned about that. My undergrad GPA was 3.7 and grad was 3.45 both while working over 25 hours weekly and taking a full course load. Would I be competitive for entrance?

    My other question is on experience. I worked as a pharmacy technician for over four years. I have earned and maintained CPR/First Aid certifications for over ten years. I have worked as a personal trainer and group fitness instructor for nearly 5 years and taught health and wellness courses at the local community college for the last three years. I am a lifeguard as well. I am not interested in physical therapy or cardiac rehab and have not used those to earn hours. Would anything that I have done translate into experience hours? Much of my time personal training clients is more than just telling them an exercise; it typically includes nutritional education and turns into a therapy session as we determine the psychological components. I have also worked with clients that are limited by injuries, recovering from injuries/post physical therapy, or have other serious health concerns (heart disease, diabetes mellitus, etc.). I understand each school will have different criteria, but are these experiences translatable and will they assist me with understanding the program and perhaps count as experience hours?

    Clearly I understand the dedication required for schooling. My husband is a pharmacist and we are both passionate about helping others and continuing to learn to assist others on their journeys to wellness. Thanks for your help/advice.

    1. Your education will likely have prepared you fairly well. But the experiences you mention do not hit the mark, at least for patient contact hours, which requires you personally to be in charge of some aspect of a patient’s care. I’ve seen people make the argument for their personal training experience as relevant in their essay, but it’s a tough argument. You really need some form of HCE. What you have would generally count as “other health care experience,” but most schools want patient care hours as well. If you’re serious about this, you will get out there and find some work you can do assessing and treating patients in some way. See our forum for details. https://www.mypatraining.com/staging/forum

  86. Hello Paul,
    I love your website! All my questions have been answered from this website. It has made me realize that PA school is definitely right for me, so thank you!
    I’m going to be a senior as an undergrad and I have no healthcare experience. I just wanted to know 1) what health care experience did you have before applying to PA school? 2) Is there any advice you can give to someone who is on a low budget and needs health care experience? I know for scribes, there is no need to pay anything as they provide training and job placement. Is the process of becoming an EMT similar to that? Lastly, 3) how long should I wait before applying to PA school? Since I need health care hours – at least 1000 – I know I will need to take at least a year off. What would you recommend?
    Again, thank you so much, and I look forward to your response!

    1. Thanks for the compliments, Aisha!
      There are lots of kinds of health care experience that can work. See this forum thread of ours for ideas.
      Not sure how you mean your question about being low budget. I guess you’re asking how can you make enough to live on while obtaining HCE. That’s hard. Most starter HCE jobs are lower paying. EMT is great experience, but usually the pay is low. I personally like the idea of Respiratory Tech. It can be done in two years to grant an associates, or you can do it on top of your bachelors. This is a 2-year distraction, but the fallback job it will give you is GREAT HCE, and pays very well. When you get out of undergrad, you usually are too young and inexperienced to get into PA school. Average age to start PA school is 27, so between 21 and 27 (or younger), you can have a great career as an RT and amass an impressive log of experience hours WHILE MAKING GOOD MONEY.

      How long should you wait? I say apply as soon as you meet the requirements. Just expect you may not get in. But if you do… :D

      1. Thank you for taking the time to answer, Paul!
        What I mean by low budget is not requiring much money for training. I was a scribe for four months, and I did not have to pay for training or books. I know in order to be an EMT, you have to pay at least $1000 for training. I was thinking about becoming a respiratory technician or EKG technician as well, but it’s a pretty lengthy process compared to becoming an EMT and I’m sure the expenses of books and training add up.

        I also go to school in New York but live in California. My training and certification to become an EMT or EKG/respiratory technician should probably start when I’m in California, since I will be moving there after I graduate, right?

        I was also thinking of getting a CNA license while at school, just so I can get in some hours during the school year. Would that be something I should look into?

        My GPA as of now is a 2.8 and I will be taking anatomy and physiology and microbiology this following year as well as 5 other classes per semester, which I hope will increase my GPA.

        My current plan is to do amazingly well this following year, hoping to increase my GPA that way the admissions committee knows that I’ve turned myself around. I am also planning on taking a year off for GRE’s and HCE and then applying for PA school, but to become a respiratory tech takes a couple years. Do you think I should take a few years off instead and become/work as a respiratory technician or take only a year off and become an EMT? Or do something else? I know you said that the average age to start PA school is 27, but isn’t there a limit as to how long people can wait before applying?

        Sorry I’m asking all these questions. I’m just all over the place and stuck on what path I should take in terms of HCE to help me out with my GPA and how much time I should take off for amazing HCE and GRE scores before applying. I’M FREAKING OUT PAUL!!! :(

  87. Hi Paul!

    Right now I am in the process of obtaining my EMT-B Certificate so I can work as an Emergency Tech in the hospital and I’m also taking the pre reqs needed to get into the PA program. I was wondering if this is a good plan.

    My previous plan was to become and lpn and then work on becoming a PA but when I thought about it .. it would take me 2 years to become an LPN when I could just work as a EMT and finish my pre reqs in that 2 years!

    Let me know what you think about my plan I have now!! Thanks

    1. Your new plan is much better. Don’t become a nurse if that’s not what you want to be. You wouldn’t go to airplane mechanic’s school if your real goal was to be a pilot — that’d be very indirect and not-terribly-helpful.

      1. My advisor told me that my pre req grades are everything. If I manage to get a 3.5 or higher gpa in all my classes with a year of EMT work experience, what do you think are the chances that I will get accepted into the PA program? The school I live by is University of WA and they recently just lowered there required hours from 4,000 to 2,000.

        Also I see alot of people on this post that has some kind of degree, does that give you more of a chance to get accepted into the PA program?

        Thank you for taking the time out of the day to answer my questions. I’ve been stressing over what route I needed to get started!

        1. Hi Chanessa,

          I think most schools are requiring an Bachelor’s degree. Really in anything, but you must also have the pre-reqs to be considered. It’s pretty fierce competition with just these baseline requirements, so anything else you can throw on the table that sets you out will help. i.e. volunteer experience, diversity in life experience, athletics, etc.

          1. I think that sums it up nicely.

  88. Hi Paul, I’ve been a pharmacy tech for about two years I plan on goin for two and a half or three before changing into a hospital I’m currently in a retail/long term care setting pharmacy.. I thought it was sort of dead end until someone mentioned a possibility of it being hce for pa as I was talking about going back to school for a pa. That got me extra excited of course, I’m in Washington state and can’t find any answers.. Do you know if I’ll get decent enough hce with say maybe two or three years as a nationally certified and state licensed pharmacy technician? Is it enough for just hce? Could I go back to school and get my credits and apply? Is it worth it? I appreciate feedback I can’t seem to get answers from anybody till I crossed this post.. Thanks :)

    1. Hi, Gregg! I don’t want to curb your enthusiasm, but pharmacy tech is not usually great for getting you into PA school. Yes, they will count it as “Health Care Experience,” but not the all-important “Patient Care Experience.” You do interact with patients, but not in the way that PCE requires. Specifically, CASPA describes Patient Care Experience as:

      Experiences in which you are directly responsible for a patient’s care; for example: prescribing medication, performing procedures, directing a course of treatment, working on patients as an active nurse or EMT, etc.

      So, it’ll help, but not a ton. If you want to become a PA, you need to get working with patients directly in some capacity. Our site has articles on that. There is also a thread on our forum about it (click here to read it).

  89. Hi, I’m currently about to finish a BS in psychology. I have a 3.7GPA and will complete science prerequisite for medical school (bio,chem,anatomy,physiology etc). I’m interested in mental health and would love to become a Psychiatrist, however I don’t know if I want to stay in school that long without a paycheck. I’ve been looking into PA in psychiatry. For clinical care, I will be able to work as a behavior technician (I studied in those classes) and also get shadowing for doctors as well as a internship with helping a Psychiatrist. I was wondering if this would help me look better when applying for PA positions and also if it helps me with the requirements for hands on patient care.

    I’m really interested in the bridge between psychology/mental health/behavior/medical models.

    1. I think that’s a pretty good plan. If I could add anything to it, it would be to broaden your clinical experience by doing at least a little acute care or other non-mental health work. Volunteer in an ER. Become an EMT. Work in a primary care clinic. You have the mental health part covered. Not get the physical side, at least a little bit.

  90. Hi Paul,

    I’m currently a student in a dietetics bachelor’s program. I really, really want to become a PA. I don’t currently have patient care experience, and am trying to decide which route to take. I could apply for dietetic internships after graduation, which take one year, and then work as a dietitian for a year or two. But that seems a lot of effort if that is not ultimately what I want to do. Would you recommend EMT, phlebotomy or CNA instead? What ultimately gives the experience that will be the most useful as a PA?

    1. I actually think you might do well to keep on that track. It’s a good way to get patient care hours, and the requirement is that you be in charge of some aspect of a patients care (assessment and/or treatment). You could go CNA or EMT, etc., but I dont’ think they’re vastly superior, and you will need to start over to do them. Call the schools that interest you and ask what they think.

  91. Kat O'Malley says:

    I’m graduating here in the spring with a BS in Bio and a Chem Minor…I started the degree in 2003, and am now just finishing (the hiatus was due to a move and a career choice that I couldn’t say no to financially) in May. I’m curious if anyone has any experience with old credits that are, in most cases, needed to be retaken to be considered as a contending applicant for PA school, and how strict they are on that? The class that I’m curious about is A&P 1. I am now getting an A in Advanced Cadaver Lab, which is obviously intense and way harder than the level 1. Would that class taken now override the requirement for A&P 1 taken 10 years ago? Or will I still need to take it again?

    Thanks.

    1. Most schools are strict about how long a class if “countable” for. Mine were over 10 years old but counted, so it just depends. Call the schools that interest you to get clear. You will probably need to take anatomy 101 — advanced classes rarely “override” anything.

  92. sapphyreopal5 says:

    I’m yet another person who is interested in pursuing a career in the healthcare field and believe a PA may be a great fit for me (of course I’ll shadow at least a couple PAs before I finalize my decision). I was a student in the cardiovascular technology program at my local community college before I had to leave during my second semester. I’ve been working as a specimen accessioner/processor at a medical lab for about 8 months now.

    I was considering getting my phlebotomy certificate and staying within the company I’m with now. While working as a phlebotomist theoretically, I would also consider getting my bachelor’s in clinical lab science, since my employer may pay up to 100% of my tuition costs (if the education is relevant for a future potential job and funding allows). At the same time, I admit cardiac ultrasonography came naturally to me (even though I had a hard time keeping up with the assignments, due to family problems at the time). My teachers said that although I had a hard time keeping up with the school work I was in fact probably their smartest student because I just understood the concepts very well (even if I couldn’t put it on paper).

    I am turning 25 in a few weeks and have a son who is almost 5 months old, so I do have some special challenges with regards to how much work and schooling I can pursue at this time. My question here is, should I go the phlebotomy route and gain my HCE that way while obtaining my bachelor’s in clinical lab science, or should I go back to cardiovascular tech school since that’s where a lot my natural skills seem to be? My biggest concern with this route is that I would have to wait about a year and a half to go back to CVT school, since they accept applications every spring and I wouldn’t start back up a year later. After reading that phlebotomy tends to be in the bottom tier for HCE, this does make me think twice about going this route.

    One other thing that makes me wonder about becoming a PA is that I was diagnosed as a high functioning autistic individual as a young child. I am a rather mild case and most people are surprised when they learn about my having been diagnosed. However, there are some times here and there where I have socially awkward moments, an odd sense of humor (but I know how to play nice with the rules), and sometimes can struggle with understanding spoken language as I need someone to repeat themselves multiple times at times. This is pretty manageable and hasn’t been a major cause of trouble with developing relationships with other people, although I have heard of medical schools frowning upon people who were given this label period. Would this hinder my ambitions as a PA or is this one of those things that I can keep to myself, since it hasn’t had a significant impact on my ability to relate with other people in years?

    I’m sorry this is a terribly long post but I am feeling stuck as to what way to go with more motivation to do something great with my life than ever. Any and all advice would be so helpful!

    1. True, phlebotomy isn’t amazing HCE, but it’s fine to think of it as a skill that is easily obtained and can be useful. Many students get their phlebotomy cert and work as medical assistants, where they have more varied experience, but can call on their phleb skills as needed. Clinical lab tech is a major that won’t help you much as a PA. It won’t harm you, but if you get out and get working as a CLT, you won’t get ANY patient contact hours that you can claim, and that’s what PA schools want to see. CVT is good experience if you choose to go that route. Sounds like it might take some time though. As for autism spectrum disorders, I have two thoughts: 1) if they aren’t so noticeable, then I don’t think there’s any requirement to tell anyone that you have one, and I don’t see how sharing it could help, unless it’s in your essay and you’re sharing what you’ve learned about yourself from it. 2) Be sure that working closely with people is something that appeals to you, since autism spectrum folks often CAN do it, they usually don’t LOVE doing it. Your choice of a technical, if impersonal major of clinical lab technologist makes me wonder (as I’m sure it would with PA schools), if close work with people is your bag.

  93. Hello Paul,
    I’m looking forward to becoming a Physician Assistant. Would it be better to major in natural sciences such as Biology or in the Allied Health Sciences? As for HCE, Medical Assisting is very common, but I can’t decide which is a better way of getting HCE between EKG tech and Clinical Medical Assisting. Which is better preferred and a faster way of getting hours?

    1. I prefer natural sciences to allied health, but it depends. Respiratory Therapy is excellent experience and it’s allied health. But both paths can work fine. EKG tech is harder to find. I also think it’s narrower in scope, and I think it looks better to show that you’ve worked with patients in a variety of settings and with a variety of medical problems. For my money, Clinical Medical Assisting is the better choice. But again, either path could work.

  94. Hey Paul !
    Im a new emt in the field for a couple of months and I wanted to know if the region (etc. city, suburbs) plays a part in part when schools take a look at your experience .I live in Detroit and work for a private ambulance company. If i transfer and start working with detroit’s ems department, will that make any difference? Detroit uses a medic/basic system versus basic/basic system that I work in now. Alot of the calls i get are transports and dialysis. If i start working in the city I will get to go on rescues and more serious calls. Its really tempting to do because alot of the things I learned in emt school, I dont get to apply it doing transfers. If I start working with detroit’s ems, will that make me any better than another emt who does regular transfers is my question? also do schools look at the setting where you worked (suburbs private ambulance vs large City ambulance)? Also does working in a city fire department alongside medics puts me more on the medic side when applying to schools even though im just a basic? …your opionion is greatly appreciated…also if anyone else wants to comment and put some input that will be great! thanks paul

    1. I don’t think it makes a huge difference where. You might get a little bump from being in a large metro area, but in truth, they’re only able to imagine what you could be doing, so they really can’t give or take too much credit away based on a guess. EMT hours are pretty much all equal in terms of admissions. But by all means, go and do EMS where you are more likely to learn and see more. You’ll be a better clinician for it one day. You’ll also have many interesting stories to tell in an essay or interview.

  95. Hi,
    I’m an international student currently in a us university, majoring in biology. I’m in undergrad now, however I wanna do masters in pa studies. I know they require clinical hours but I’m unable to complete them in the us since they require a ssn for volunteer work which I don’t have. So I was wondering if I get those clinical hours done back in my home country, will they be acceptable?
    I look forward to your reply.

    1. They should count. You should document them carefully and be able to prove them by having contact information for your supervisors.

  96. Hello,
    I find this blog very helpful with info regarding PA school.
    I’m just wondering if being a Certified Surgical Technician would count as patient care hours?
    We do more than just pass instruments during surgery- we retract, suction, and assist with suturing. With operating room experience, how would ST’s be looked at for Patient care hours?
    Thanks!

    1. All of your time will count in some way. The key is how much of it will be the most coveted “Patient Care Experience,” and which will be the less coveted “Health Care Experience.” PCE involves working directly with the patient. HCE is all the other healthcare related work that DOESN’T involve working directly with patients. So you’ll need to estimate (without bloating) what percentage of your time is spent working with patients, and what percentage is not. Before you go saying 95% or 100%, you should call the schools you will be applying to ask them how they would estimate it. When you’re autoclaving, you aren’t earning PCE, you’re earning HCE. Here’s CASPA page on experiences so you can see how they are defined (click).

  97. Hey Paul,

    First and foremost, thank you for all this information. It’s been very helpful in the process of planning for PA School. I was just wondering what your thoughts are on practicing as a certified and licensed recreation therapist (CTRS/L) for health care experience. Because most are not aware of what Recreation Therapists do, allow me to briefly explain our profession. We are allied health professionals who are state certified and licensed. We work mainly on treatment teams along side occupational, physical, and speech therapists in PM&R, as well as within the community and in mental health. In short, we utilize recreation activities to make improvements in the various domains (physical, mental, cognitive, etc…) of our patients lives. For example, if an individual had poor balance due to their MS, we could use yoga to improve their trunk strength and ultimately improve their balance. Our practice follows similar protocols to the other rehab disciplines, like assessing for areas of impairment, planning a course of action, implementing an appropriate modality, and evaluating the patients progress. The main point is we work directly with our patients each and every day.

    In my situation, I am currently completing my internship at a prison medical center, with patients with severe mental illness (schizophrenia, schizoaffective, borderline personality, etc…). I am on the psychiatry team working alongside psychiatrists, psychologists, nursing, social work, and more. It is a very rewarding experience and is something that I hope will stand out on my application. I mainly run exercise, social skills, balance, and symptom management groups for this will both mental illness and physical ailments and I will have about 560 hours by the end of the internship. I also plan on working as a rec therapist full time for a whole year, prior to applying.

    I feel as though mental health is a widely misunderstood area of health care not just for PA’s, but for all clinicians and I think my experience will be beneficial to the field. With all this being said, (I apologize for the rambling) do you feel that I will be a competitive applicant with this health care experience? I will also have my EMT-B when applying. Thank you in advance.

    1. Hard to say. I have to think that some reading your application definitely won’t understand, so you would be wise to use your essay to make things clear. Your summary actually makes it sound like decent experience. That said, mental health was my background, and I got some good “credit” for it, but in the end I decided that I would be wise to balance it out with some traditional health care experience. I chose emergency medicine by working as an EMT. You should probably look for something more “traditional” when your internship is over. This will also give your application more breadth. I typically find that applicants who have a broader variety of health care experience (some of this, a little of that, a bunch of that) look better on paper than those who have concentrated on one area to the exclusion of others (worked as a physical therapy aide only, for example).

  98. HI, I’m so glad I found your post. I am currently a CPHT, Pharmacy Technician and wanting to apply to PA school. I’ve been working in a hospital setting for 5 years now. At my hospital we do Medication Reconciliation. This is done by a pharmacy technician. In short what a Med Rec Tech does is upon the patient’s hospital admission, ( usually in the ER), we talk to the patient ( face to face) in their room and get a complete list of medications they take at home. Since this is Direct Patient access does this count as credit?

    1. You will definitely get some credit for it, but in general, pharmacy tech jobs are not preferred. I suggest you claim it, but have some other, different HCE up your sleeve as well. Besides, I think the most impressive trait on an application is breadth of HCE. So consider EMT, hospital work, CNA, etc.

  99. Hi, I am a senior in high school and I am graduating in June, also as a CMA. I am definitely interested in PA school and am trying to figure out all of my options. I figured that since I will already have my certification as a MA I will renew that as needed until I graduate from undergrad. However, I am very interested in going into surgery as a specialty, and have read that a lot of surgical PAs get experience as surgical techs, but I don’t want to have to go through more training and education for that. Also, to make things more complicated, I have looked into an ROTC program because the university I want to go to is very expensive and my recruiting officer says there are great opportunities in medicine in the Army. However, this was super new and unexpected because I have not really imagined myself in the Army. I know that I would have to spend 4 years in the Army after graduation to pay back my scholarship, and I am not even aware if I can get any HCE that way…

    1. Sounds like you have a lot of options. Definitely hold onto your CMA certificate. You don’t need to be a surgical tech to eventually become a PA in surgery. In fact, I would consider it a bad idea; you don’t get to count much of the work as a surgical tech as the all-important “Patient Care Experience” for PA school. You will spend the majority of your work day setting up for surgery (cleaning, sterilizing, storing, and packing surgical instruments). Sure, you will learn a lot about the OR, but your work will mostly be solo, instead of with a surgeon or surgical PA and patients.

      The Army is a path to PA. You should, however, be clear that it is VERY competitive to get into the armed forces PA program (they have one school, the Interservice Physician Assistant Program, and take don’t graduate many each year). This means that if you join and don’t win a highly coveted seat in the Interservice program, you’re going to be doing something else for the Army (Uncle Sam will own you!)

      INSTEAD, I suggest you stay in the civilian world so that you will have a MUCH better chance of getting into one of the nearly 200 civilian PA schools. Once you have your PA, you can fairly easily join the army and go to Officer Training School to become an Army physician assistant if that what you want. You will have plenty of non-military options as well. Unless, of course, being in the Army is something very important to you — in that case, you better go that route.

      1. Thank you so much for your reply, that really helped. Also, I haven’t chosen a major yet and won’t for another year. I want to major in Health Science or Exercise Science because I think it interests me more than strictly biology or microbiology or biochemistry. My parents believe that majoring biology is the best route for PA school- they even talked to a PA and they suggested I shouldn’t major in Health Science. From my research, I’ve learned it really doesn’t matter as long as you get your prereqs done… I don’t know what to tell my parents because they think Health Science isn’t practical.

  100. Sarah Cho says:

    I am working as a CNA in a small senior day care center. Would this count as direct pce? I have heard that senior day care centers are not quite medical facilities, but it’s more of an intermediary. Either way I am a certified nurse aide and that is my title, so is this still a good experience?

    1. Some schools like CNA a lot because it’s very hand’s on, and some don’t, because it’s pretty basic. Being a CNA in a hospital might be a good way to up your cred as a CNA. You could also consider phlebotomy or EMT while you’re working, just to add some more skills and patient experience.

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